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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Some basic questions about Mentalism (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tony Iacoviello
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2 years ago, in AOL's business section, they were following several new startups. They went through the planning, opening, operation, and growth of the companies over a year's period. Half way through the period, one of the businesses was found to have been using a name that was trademarked by another business (in another state, but in the same industry). The business had to immediately change its name, and I believe they had to pay fines and penalties. If memory serves me correctly, the business folded before the end of the year.

What crossed my mind at that time is, that is a lot of power for 2 little letters. Smile

As I've said before, when a person at the top of his or her field offers advice, whether one agrees with it or not, it is always wise to listen.
Banachek
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KrisKraze, you seemed very riled up for some reason. Sorry the TM hurts you when you read it. Honestly, when I see trade mark it does not bother me at all. I don't even see it on the Nike logo or the Exxon logo or... well all major companies that seem to be quite successful. Really the TM is smaller than the other letters. Kind of like a period or question mark.

If it is wrong for that to be on Wikepedia, ask them and see if that is so. I did not write the original post. In fact I am not sure who did. I did correct a mistake or two when I saw it. It looks like someone has already removed the TM's and put the fact it is trademarked up front. That is fine and a nice way of presenting it. More in your face if you ask me but fine.

As for contracts. At the time of signing I sure do. I am talking about promo that others do on me. Not articles that are written, they can write what they want, I have no control over that. As for mistakes being made in communication on contracts, it happens all the time and better safe than sorry if they are promoting me. The TM just gives me one more area of control over promo they make on me. Psychological and otherwise. I don;t want them saying that I Banachek offers $10,000 if you can figure out he if he uses tricks. I offer $10,000 if you can prove I use any stooges that night at that performance. I don't want them saying I have psychic powers. I have a lot to lose if they do that. The small TM on my name makes them think twice before they put promo out without clearing it with me first.

My last post on this as it seems such a silly thing to argue about. You either agree or don't and you have that right.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
chichi711
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I don't know what Mentalist means. I just know that everyday that passes I try and distance myself from the word itself.
R Gould
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Completely agree that adding a "TM" to your own name on Wikipedia is inappropriate.

R Gould
Banachek
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I know I said that would be my last post on the subject and it is, however I have noticed something different on Wikipedia. Whoever posted my bio or made later changes redirected from a Banachek page to a Steve Shaw page which is quite silly in context. It should be the way it was originally, Randi is not Randall Zwinge, David Copperfield is not David Kotkin, Kreskin is not George Joseph Kresge so why would someone redirect my name to Steve Shaw which by the way is not my real name and not the name any in magic would know. It is Steven Shaw. Anyone know how to redirect it back? Anyone (not that anyone does) searching for Banachek in the mentalists list would not see Banachek but some guy called Steve Shaw Smile .
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Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
R Gould
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Banachek,

I have fixed it for you. Search for Banachek and the article will come up as it should.

I will make it so that Steven Shaw redirects to Banachek, and not vice versa.

R Gould
Bill Palmer
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Since so many people have ignored the original question or tried to poke around it with cutesy definitions, I'll give some traditional explanations.

In England, the term "mentalism" refers in some cases to mental illness and in other cases to a particular philosophy. Neither of these applies in the case of mentalism as used in the context of a form of entertainment.

A mentalist is an entertainer who gives the impression of a person with psychic powers, usually by using techniques that stem from the repertoire of the conjurer. Until the Geller effect which made its initial appearance about 1972, mentalists generally simulated mindreading, predicting, question answering, finding hidden objects, revealing personality traits via "psychometry," mind over matter and other similar phenomena. With Uri Geller, the mind over matter aspect of this expanded to include metal bending and starting of stopped timepieces, including (allegedly) those which had no works at all. According to most people in the know, the metal bending phenomenon is best demonstrated by Banachek™.

A large part of the community of mentalists differentiates between mentalism and mental magic. The difference between the two of these is the emphasis. Mentalism concerns the mind. Mental magic concerns the props.

According to Max Maven, in mentalism, the emphasis is shifted from the visual, which is the most important part of magic, to the auditory, which is the most important part of most mentalism.
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Floyd Collins
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"A large part of the community of mentalists differentiates between mentalism and mental magic. The difference between the two of these is the emphasis. Mentalism concerns the mind. Mental magic concerns the props.

According to Max Maven, in mentalism, the emphasis is shifted from the visual, which is the most important part of magic, to the auditory, which is the most important part of most mentalism."

In all my years of being in this business I could never get a grip on this difference. I know Max has said in his lectures even that the magic happens in the spectators mind. But with the visual aid why does this not also happen in the mind as well. I guess I really have never gotten that, even when my mentor many years ago tried hard to get me to see the difference I still cannot. Props are not a bad thing, and even a billet can be considered by some as a prop. I guess I just feel it’s not the props that make the show it’s the entertainer. And I feel mentalists use more verbal communication and command with their effects over a magician and that is the biggest difference props or no props.
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HOORAY FOR THE BODYMINDVOICE..............PROP!
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Banachek
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Ace of hearts,

I too use to think the difference was props but more and more I think it comes down to the performer. A good performer can use props in such a way they seem to be part of the mind-reading process and not the process. Derren Brown has done this well a few times. Take Raven from the German Next Uri Geller Series. He use a real Raven and props but it came off as very bizarre and worked for him.

It is a different way of thinking. I will give an example, years ago I came up with and effect that used Homonyms (words that sound the same but are spelt different). We had homonyms that a few four-sets of homonyms but no five-sets. The effect forced one of five areas. The last being chosen rarely but there was still a chance. For instance the word write. We had right (correct), rite (ritual), wright (a maker) and (write (to inscribe). We did not have a fifth word that sounded like you were saying right. So in the fifth place I put the word "ripe". Figuring in my getting the word I could hem and haw and state, "ri...ripe...no right, the word is right." to me this has the feel of realism with it and not seem that I am fishing. If I hit ripe they will stop me, if it is not ripe I have not asked and get it right as if it was coming to me.

Now my friend who has a magic background put the word "wrong" in there. He figured he would say, "Would I be wrong in saying your word is right?" if they say you are wrong then you would quip, "Then I would be right in saying your word is wrong!" Cute, clever but very magical. It turned the effect into a trick rather than mind-reading. It turned it into mental magic. Hence my reason for saying I think it is more about the performer than the props.

Here is another example. Often I will try to figure a way to use a magic prop for a mental effect. It is a little game I play to keep my creative juices running. I was looking at a wooden coin slide box. A magic prop if there ever was one. Then I thought, if I painted it black, put ESP COIN Tester with an address bellow it in white and did this to three or four, now I have something that could be a real 'Psychic Test.' Four quarters are shown, dates are seen to be different, they are mixed and turned face down. Boxes are open on the table with place for quarter to go in. I turn my back they place the quarters date down in the boxes and mix. Now I turn around and can tell them which quarter is in which box, open the box to show I am correct. It would seem like a real test that it performed in real parapsychological labs under test conditions.

Those who know what coin slide boxes are will know what I am talking about. Oh you do have to m*r* each box via the zip. Now a magician might do this and use the dragons on the faces that comes with them. Now you are back to a simple trick.

So as you see, I think sometimes it really is the magicians thinking that makes mental magic, not so much the props. It is a whole different way of thinking.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
Floyd Collins
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Thanks Banacheck, I agree with everything you said.
No one said it would be easy, or did they?

Check out my all new book "Chicken Scratches" visit my lulu store for more information.

http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/thecenterstage

http://www.collinscomedymagic.com
randallmagic
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Just saw this post and thought I would put my 2 cents in. I went through the trademark stuff and here is what I found.
Anyone can put a TM (trade mark) next to a product they own. Except for scaring away some who don't know what it means, it is pretty worthless. Like putting a little c in a circle, which means copyright. You would go and have it registered and then if after the powers to be do a search to find out if anyone else has done anything similiar. That cost me at the time I did it $350 with no guarantee. Then if it comes back clean (takes about 3 months) you would put the R in a circle that means registered trade mark and that does mean something, your protected. It's the R in the circle that you really want. This was told to me by the government agencies that handle this which I can't remember which one, but it is easy enough to find out by doing a search.
Randall
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