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ClintonMagus
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For several months, my daughter has been receiving recruiting information from colleges around the country. Yesterday she received one from a prestigious college in the Northeast, who offered a degree in "Gay and Lesbian Studies".

Without getting into politics, what would one do with such a degree?
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
Josh Chaikin
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Without getting into politics, I would think that in a very metropolitan area on the coasts, maybe San Francisco, such a degree would be useful in a government department. Or maybe at a Gay and Lesbian magazine/tv station?

Hard to say really.
Al Angello
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If lots of colleges offer degrees in marine biology, and there is one low paying job for every 1,000 graduates what are those kids to do?

I have an engineering degree, and after I graduated I realized that engineers are the most boring people on earth, so I joined the juggling, and magic clubs just for laughs.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
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Magnus Eisengrim
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It might make a good stepping-stone into something else. Maybe law school. Maybe an advanced degree in Gay and Lesbian studies, leading to research or policy analysis.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
ClintonMagus
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 09:00, Al Angello wrote:

... after I graduated I realized that engineers are the most boring people on earth...


Actually, engineers are not necessarily boring. They (we) just have an affinity for Star Trek that borders on obsessive...
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Al Angello
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Clinton LOL
Don't get me started on the eccentricities of engineering.
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http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
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kregg
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All you need is a camera and a internet server and you're in business!

Gay and lesbian studies sounds more like a degree in social BS. I'm sure the majority of people on earth have either family members or friends who are G's or L's ... it never crossed my mind to study my brother like a lab rat. His attractions certainly differ from mine, but, lets put academia back on the track of higher learning.
POOF!
Elputty
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Its probably a similar degree to African and African American Studies, or Women's Studies, or any other interdisciplinary major that focuses on the experience of a particular cultural group.

Gay and Lesbian studies is probably a fusion of several different fields such as history, sociology, anthropology, psychology, and political science - its looking into the experience of Gay and Lesbian people and how they are portrayed and interact with society at large from a variety of different academic perspectives.

I'm guessing the college is probably a liberal arts college? In that case, you're learning how to think critically, problem solve and communicate effectively so that you can go on to do whatever you're interested in later in life.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 08:53, ClintonMagus wrote:

Without getting into politics, what would one do with such a degree?

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/r......orID=446

"Art, music, politics, psychology, philosophy, and literature will all be part of your gay and lesbian studies major. If you plan to obtain a master’s degree in psychology, social work, or sociology, this major offers a solid background for a career working with this population. You don’t have to be involved in a LGBT relationship to major in gay and lesbian studies—this major is open to all."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Doug Higley
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The Comet is approaching none too soon...we have become officially ridiculous, frivilous and might I add absurd.

The University Of Silly Directions opens on Saturday and in keeping with it's Neo-Liberal agenda (ie: Pandering for Grants) will offer Schlorships in the following Degree Studies: 'Hair Follicles' and 'Breakthroughs in Paper Bag Technology As It Relates To Mask Making' with post graduate studies available in related fields such as 'Crayon Melting in A Nuclear Age' and 'Twin Studies' where it will be studied if Twins fart at equal rates over a designated period of time.

San Francisco City Govt. job placement is guaranteed though employment in the Construction Trades will be encouraged. Flagging Traffic and Orange Cone Placement will be offered as electives.

If only my Daughter wasn't born too soon! She might not be wasting her life in Avionics.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 10:05, kregg wrote:
All you need is a camera and a internet server and you're in business!

Gay and lesbian studies sounds more like a degree in social BS. I'm sure the majority of people on earth have either family members or friends who are G's or L's ... it never crossed my mind to study my brother like a lab rat. His attractions certainly differ from mine, but, lets put academia back on the track of higher learning.


Here's a radical thought. Why not learn about the program before you draw conclusions about it.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 10:40, Elputty wrote:

I'm guessing the college is probably a liberal arts college? In that case, you're learning how to think critically, problem solve and communicate effectively so that you can go on to do whatever you're interested in later in life.

I'm sure you are aware of this, but we should note that not just liberal arts schools offer these programs.

A quick search reveals that even MIT, for example, offers a Gay and Lesbian Studies program.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
ClintonMagus
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 11:07, Doug Higley wrote:
The Comet is approaching none too soon...we have become officially ridiculous, frivilous and might I add absurd.

The University Of Silly Directions opens on Saturday and in keeping with it's Neo-Liberal agenda (ie: Pandering for Grants) will offer Schlorships in the following Degree Studies: 'Hair Follicles' and 'Breakthroughs in Paper Bag Technology As It Relates To Mask Making' with post graduate studies available in related fields such as 'Crayon Melting in A Nuclear Age' and 'Twin Studies' where it will be studied if Twins fart at equal rates over a designated period of time.

San Francisco City Govt. job placement is guaranteed though employment in the Construction Trades will be encouraged. Flagging Traffic and Orange Cone Placement will be offered as electives.

If only my Daughter wasn't born too soon! She might not be wasting her life in Avionics.


Doug, thanks for that. As always, you hit the subject dead center, although from a rather strange vantage point... Smile
Things are more like they are today than they've ever been before...
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 09:03, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
It might make a good stepping-stone into something else. Maybe law school. Maybe an advanced degree in Gay and Lesbian studies, leading to research or policy analysis.

John


I don't think that it would be particularly good preparation for law school; however, you need an undergraduate degree in something (anything) to get into a law school, so it's at least useful to the extent that it meets that requirement. Most beneficial probably either to writing/publicly speaking about the subject, or teaching (though she'd need to go on into grad school).

It could also be a good preparation for SPECIALIZING in various professions, e.g. gay/lesbian/transgender issues in law, but you'd still need law school; or psychology, but you'd still need a psych credential.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
kregg
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 11:10, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-29 10:05, kregg wrote:
All you need is a camera and a internet server and you're in business!

Gay and lesbian studies sounds more like a degree in social BS. I'm sure the majority of people on earth have either family members or friends who are G's or L's ... it never crossed my mind to study my brother like a lab rat. His attractions certainly differ from mine, but, lets put academia back on the track of higher learning.


Here's a radical thought. Why not learn about the program before you draw conclusions about it.

John


'Cause ... the synopsis wasn't given, only the title. If the title is misleading and they're actually studying earthworms and other hermaphrodites? Not only do I have g & l friends, but, I've worked in theater & film, as well as, the restaurant business; not to mention, I sailed through the androgynous 80's.
Next time I speak with my brother I'll ask him,"by the way Michael (my younger brother) I don't know enough about your lifestyle would you mind if I studied you you big gay freak?"
POOF!
Bema
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In terms of employment, the major is no different than numerous other more popular liberal arts majors -- English lit, history, anthropology, sociology, etc. You either continue to study it in an advanced program -- where your only real direct application is as an academic (professor), or you apply the critical thinking skills you acquired through your studies to another, more practical discipline.

The reality is that most liberal arts students who major in the areas of the humanities don't go on to careers directly related to those fields. I would think gay/lesbian studies would as relevant to the study of law, for example, as English lit or history or economics would be (peripheral at best).

Personally, I think anyone who is impassioned about and interested enough in an area of study (no matter how unconventional or "impractical") to devote time and effort in pursuing it will probably do well in the world. There are many, many students who follow more conventional fields of study with little real interest or passion -- which strikes me as a waste of time.
LobowolfXXX
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On 2008-05-29 19:59, Bema wrote:


The reality is that most liberal arts students who major in the areas of the humanities don't go on to careers directly related to those fields. I would think gay/lesbian studies would as relevant to the study of law, for example, as English lit or history or economics would be (peripheral at best).



I found English to be a particularly good undergrad degree for law school. English majors pretty much just read, research, and write (ok, and analyze), which is a good synopsis of law school. Furthermore, the vast majority of exams in law school are long (3 hour minimum, up to 7 or 8 hours generally) essay exams, which require a great deal of writing under the gun. Many people in my class with great academic records at top undergrad institutions had problems on law school exams due to the intensive writing.

Also, some of the very best students in my class were econ majors; from knowing them and being involved in class discussions with them, I think this was due to the rational, dispassionate analysis involved in economics. The liberal arts type majors didn't fare nearly as well.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
Bema
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 20:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-29 19:59, Bema wrote:


The reality is that most liberal arts students who major in the areas of the humanities don't go on to careers directly related to those fields. I would think gay/lesbian studies would as relevant to the study of law, for example, as English lit or history or economics would be (peripheral at best).



I found English to be a particularly good undergrad degree for law school. English majors pretty much just read, research, and write (ok, and analyze), which is a good synopsis of law school. Furthermore, the vast majority of exams in law school are long (3 hour minimum, up to 7 or 8 hours generally) essay exams, which require a great deal of writing under the gun. Many people in my class with great academic records at top undergrad institutions had problems on law school exams due to the intensive writing.

Also, some of the very best students in my class were econ majors; from knowing them and being involved in class discussions with them, I think this was due to the rational, dispassionate analysis involved in economics. The liberal arts type majors didn't fare nearly as well.


Don't get me wrong -- studying English literature (or Gay/Lesbian literature) can obviously be a great preparation for law school -- for the very reasons you stated (reading, analytical skills developed). There is a great benefit to "learning how to learn", study skills, reading comprehension, essay exams (if those are what you took as an English major) -- which can happen in many areas of study. But the actual study of literature has little direct relevance to the law (understanding fiction as it reflects aspects of a culture vs. understanding case law, for example).

As for economics, it is a liberal arts major, so I'm not sure how you are comparing it to the "liberal arts type majors that didn't fare nearly as well."

Just out of curiosity, do you think majoring in English literature would prepare you differently for law school than would majoring in Gay/Lesbian studies?
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2008-05-29 21:12, Bema wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-29 20:41, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-05-29 19:59, Bema wrote:


The reality is that most liberal arts students who major in the areas of the humanities don't go on to careers directly related to those fields. I would think gay/lesbian studies would as relevant to the study of law, for example, as English lit or history or economics would be (peripheral at best).



I found English to be a particularly good undergrad degree for law school. English majors pretty much just read, research, and write (ok, and analyze), which is a good synopsis of law school. Furthermore, the vast majority of exams in law school are long (3 hour minimum, up to 7 or 8 hours generally) essay exams, which require a great deal of writing under the gun. Many people in my class with great academic records at top undergrad institutions had problems on law school exams due to the intensive writing.

Also, some of the very best students in my class were econ majors; from knowing them and being involved in class discussions with them, I think this was due to the rational, dispassionate analysis involved in economics. The liberal arts type majors didn't fare nearly as well.


Don't get me wrong -- studying English literature (or Gay/Lesbian literature) can obviously be a great preparation for law school -- for the very reasons you stated (reading, analytical skills developed). There is a great benefit to "learning how to learn", study skills, reading comprehension, essay exams (if those are what you took as an English major) -- which can happen in many areas of study. But the actual study of literature has little direct relevance to the law (understanding fiction as it reflects aspects of a culture vs. understanding case law, for example).

As for economics, it is a liberal arts major, so I'm not sure how you are comparing it to the "liberal arts type majors that didn't fare nearly as well."

Just out of curiosity, do you think majoring in English literature would prepare you differently for law school than would majoring in Gay/Lesbian studies?


With respect to the "liberal arts type majors," I was mistyping faster than I was thinking, and what I meant was cultural studies type majors. I agree completely that majoring in English doesn't offer useful substantive preparation for law school, but most majors don't (although economics does).

Because the substance of undergrad majors is pretty much useless as far as law school preparation goes (everyone is on square one, or maybe square 1.01), I think that it's the processes rather than the knowledge that are the most useful components of undergraduate education, as far as preparing one for law school.

I do believe that majoring in English literature would have prepared me differently than majoring in gay/lesbian studies, all other things being equal. Philosophically and stylistically, cultural studies type courses are often at a loggerhead with law type courses (other than specific cultural-studies-type law school courses, e.g. feminist legal theory, etc.) This is one reason (among many) that people involved in feminist legal theory, critical race theory, and other cultural-legal crossovers or programs within law school are strongly opposed to, and consistently trying to change, traditional legal education. Obviously, I am speaking in broad generalities, and I'm certainly not making any universal claims; however, many generalities become generalities because they're generally (i.e. more often than not, other things being equal) true. I took some cultural studies-type courses both as an English major and in law school, and my experience is that people heavily invested in those studies (i.e. as a major vs. as an elective course or as a convenient schedule-filler) are very often too heavily involved in the way they'd like things to be to acknowledge the way things are. They certainly (generally) lacked the objectivity of the economics majors I knew, and were much more prone to adopt a clearly losing or even irrational argument that supported a preferred outcome.

In fact, the first or second lecture in a feminist legal theory course I took questioned and emphasized why society even valued being "rational" at all. The course readings for that class, mostly published in academic cultural studies journals, left a lot to be desired. Drop me a pm if you'd like to see my final paper for that course, which included a critical look at both the course and the required readings.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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I may have mistakenly ascribed cause & effect with my last post. I'm not sure to what extent undergraduate cultural programs encourage the thought processes that seem to me to disadvantage law students; it may be simply that the people attracted to such undergraduate majors have belief systems, problem solving methodologies, etc. that aren't particularly conducive to legal education as it is currently taught. Having made that disclaimer, though, it's also my experience that cultural studies courses tend to spend a disproportionately large percentage of time preaching to the choir (which does a disservice to the choir).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
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