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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Faking It (STAGE hypnotist) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bobser
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This will possibly p-ss some people off. If so, it's totally unintentional I promise.
(Mindpunisher, try to get involved in this and let's NOT have an argument. I'm interested in your thoughts-SERIOUSLY!)
There was a series on TV here in the UK last year called: 'Faking It'. Maybe some of you guys had it where you are also?
The idea was that a layperson gets trained by a leading professional (over, say, one month) in something he/she's never done before. ie: a top DJ, dog trainer, actor, arts specialist, professor of psychology etc.
Then they're put before a team of judges (3) along with say 3 other 'genuine' people of that trade/profession. The judges view all 4, before being informed that one of them is 'faking it' and are asked to pick which one it is. The judges take it in the spirit it's intended (no doubt they're on a huge fee)and have a go.
It was a great programme. If for no other reason than showing us that 'we' can be trained to do/be anything.
My question to the pros in here is: could YOU train someone to do a show over that time and not be suspected that they were a newbie?
Now no doubt some of you learned people (that's NOT said tongue in cheek)will no know where I'm coming from... but try to let it go and answer the question if possible.
For example, there's not a doubt in 'my' mind that I could take an average person and within one month make them look like a professional mentalist or hypnotherapist.
What about STAGE hypnotist?
bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mota
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Many unexpected things can happen on stage. If the show goes as planned you might pull it off but it is very possible something unexpected would happen and the lack of experience would show.
ns
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It's very well may be possible, however I would be skeptical. The mail reason I think this is that it took me a lot of study time even with a teacher to learn my stage hypnosis show. And when I watch videos of my early shows compared to what I can do today I see a huge difference.

But obviously some people are very good at learning fast, they may get a great group of volunteers and it may go very well, while someone else may have bad distractions shoved at them to mess them up intentionally.

That's my thoughts
Dannydoyle
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A good actor that can memorise a script, an easily fake a show, in which nothing goes wrong.

Problem is SO FEW shows happen in this way.

It is completly horrible from a stage saftey point of view. But it COULD be done.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WillBox
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I think they could learn enough to 'give it a go' and the show may go ok. As mota said, the risk is in the variables and not being able to confidently handle them. I also think that any experienced pro would be able to spot it - whilst they could possibly fake the audience, I don't know if they could fake the judges. The lack of absolute confidence and assuredness would be visible in one way or another.

Did you see the episode with the magician? That was brilliant - but notice that he only had to perform a short magic routine - and see what he went through! BTW hes a professional magician now.
mindpunisher
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If you had a month and at least 10 - 15 shows to perform one after another during that time. It might be possible. Plus they have a natural ability.

You would need the shows under your belt. Stage Hypnosis is like learning to drive. You have to do it a stage at a time.The thing about stage hypnosis is you can't really fake it.

You can either do it or you can't. The thing is basic stage hypnosis isn't that difficult just like driving isn't. But when your learning that's where its difficult. And the first 10 shows or so are where you learn by making most of your mistakes.

The performance side takes a couple of years to hone. But that's the same as in any field. But you have a huge chunk of learning for the mechanics of the show.

Also even when you are experienced things can happen that will throw you occasionally. A bit of luck on your side would be useful.
bobser
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Excellent feedback, thanks. I'm not sure I agree with some of the thoughts, but I am sure I'm very probably wrong in what I think.
I've just read what I've written (above) and I'm not sure if I understand exactly what I'm talking about.
Anyway, that programme with the magician guy (from Edinburgh I believe)was excellent. At one point he was so bad they were threatening to pull the plug on him (of course that might have been written in to produce some tension!). But he turned it around in the final week. And you're right Will, instead of furthering his career (was it psychology?) he became a working magician and I hear he's now quite good.
For me the most interesting part of the whole programme was that the experts in each profession simply could not conceive it possible that a person could be trained 'in that particular field' to fool them. And yet I can't remember any of the participants failing ever. As a social scientist this simply thrilled me as I'm from the 'can do' camp that says it's 'possible' to do anything!

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
WillBox
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Bobser, yes he was studying for a physics PhD at the time.

Just to clarify on a subtle point though, the meaning of the word 'faking' in this context isn't to pretend they are doing what they are doing, but to fake being a long-term professional. So the panel see three acts, and have to guess which they think is the newbie. I think Bobsers question wasn't about whether a person could pretend they are doing stage hypnosis when in fact they aren't, but whether they could appear to be a long-term pro after just a months worth of training.
mindpunisher
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Thing is you can't do a small routine with hypnosis. You have to do a full show. And the only way you can gain the skills is to do it. Much like learning to drive a car.

I think the hypnosis "fake" would be more difficult. There are so many variables outside your control.
bobser
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Sorry Willbox, your absolutely spot on, and yes that does change the gist of the question somewhat.
I understand what your saying MP, however, as Willbox,will agree with I'm sure, that's what all the experts felt about their individual 'thing'.
bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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Yes but stage hypnosis is a process. You can't jump to skits without the conditioing. you can't condition with the induction. You can do the induction without the selection. you can't select before the pre-talk etc etc.

Hypnosis is a sequenced series of events that depend upon each other in the right sequence in order to work. Whether the "demonstration" just picks out one of those parts, all the parts have to be there. This is something that lay people don't understand.
Marc Savard
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My two cents.

I just taught a stage hypnosis class last week here in Las Vegas, and after
teaching 12 individuals the same concepts, there is no way that they will all advance at the same speed. Even though they have all the same knowledge that I passed on to them, their success now lies in their work ethic, their stage presence, their comedic timing, their creative mind, and their natural abilities. Again, they now all same the same knowledge, but how they apply that knowledge remains to be seen.

That being said, I believe that if you have the right 'padewan' (student), you could potentially dupe the judges in this type of a program. I had a student in particular who has been a Radio morning show host for 20 years. He is a natural at comedic timing and filling dead air. He could step on stage tomorrow and have the charisma and flare that some seasoned hypnotists can only dream of. If the show did not throw too many unexpected curves at him, he would do fantastic.

Another factor would be his other 3 competitors on the TV show. If they are really seasoned veteran stage performers, then obviously way more difficult. Then again, we have all seen some hypnotists that have been performing forever, and bless their hearts, no matter what they did, they would immediately be chosen as the "faker".

I would be up for the challenge. I think it would be fun.

Marc
Marc Savard

www.marcsavard.com
bobser
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Y'see this is what I'm talking about. can do attitude. Reasons why and how a thing can work. Complete positive approach with the knowledge that if the training and attitude, coupled with some natural talent and desire is there, what d'ya know.... it could well work.
Marc, you're exactly the type of trainer they were looking for. Hope to bump into you some day.
bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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I never said it couldn't be done just that you would have to fit in a considerable number of shows for the month. Most shows will throw curves.
WillBox
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To be honest this idea is absolutely ripe for the makers of Faking It. I agree with mp that it is complicated, and there are many stages and variables involved, but it would be a great challenge. Some more points to consider:
- 'Winning' wouldn't just rely on the faker's own learned skill and enthusiasm, but the skill of the others. As Marc said, some stage hypnotists who have been doing it for years may still come across as total amateurs (and in the UK, particularly tacky)! So if they had natural charisma (and influence) they would already have a big head start (but to be fair, Faking It would probably choose an underconfident, reclusive busdriver).
- A months training in a context like this wouldn't compare to ordinary training, they get a stage hypnotist to shadow, challenge and push them outside of their comfort zones and fine-tune all the rough areas. If they went through the stages one by one, I think its highly possible. I imagine the show would have a segment where they have to hit the streets and perform impromptu hypnosis to build confidence, a bit like where the magician had to learn a trick and then go to a restaurant and perform it to a table, all in 15 minutes (the tension was insane - and despite fluffing it up bigtime he got a massive adrenalised buzz).
- I can also imagine, that like the magician show, the person in question would get such a buzz through hypnosis that they would end up doing it professionally.

Faking It is a brilliant show, I've always loved the underlying implications about the value of self-belief and just how much potential is residing in ordinary people, waiting to be unlocked by the right encouragement and direction.
bobser
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Willbox you're spot on with everything you say. Might I suggest you produce a one off special? I'll be the faker, Marc the trainer and oh, we'll need someone to be the judge. Someone who thinks this can't be done. Someone who might end up with egg on their face. Someone who..... ok I've got him! ....PM'ing him now....still waiting for his answer....waiting...waiting....still waiting...looks like we might have to do it as a magician....still waiting...
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
mindpunisher
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"- I can also imagine, that like the magician show, the person in question would get such a buzz through hypnosis that they would end up doing it professionally."


By that time they would probably had more training than and real experience than most stage hypnotists anyway.

They would be professional.
WillBox
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MP the definition of being professional is not the degree of training you have had, but whether or not you do it as a profession, i.e. are paid for it.
mindpunisher
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Yes and they should be able to do it to as a profession by then.

There are hypnotists setting up with less training or experience than that. Plus exposure. The magician talked about is very busy with work partly due to the TV show.

Unless they were hopeless but I find it difficult to believe they would choose someone totally hopeless or they would have no show.
bobser
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As Will already said, that's the whole idea. That's what MAKES it work. They get someone who is absolutely and genuinely useless!
I'm telling you now there are pros out there in every arena who believe they're so good they can teach anyone to do well in that given profession. I'm one of them. There y'go , I'm out of the closet.
Oh and can I just talk on the word 'professional' for a minute? I personally find it quite crude only to think of a professional as one who does something for the biggest sums of money. I think sometimes some people get professionals and mercenaries totally mixed up.

bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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