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blackdeck New user Baltimore, MD 85 Posts |
I recently bought Tommy Wonder's 3 DVD's.
I was wondering where you can purchase the things he uses in his tricks, like the Rubik's card box, and the other things. |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Generally, you need to make them yourself. Tommy Wonder was a craftsman and made much of his own magic.
There are very few authorized copies. In the Books of Wonder he gives detailed information no how to construct them. |
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Carducci Special user Denver 543 Posts |
To echo the sentiments of wsduncan, if you want anything more than inspiration and food for though from TW (i.e. you actually want to build the props) you will need the books. If you are building these things, the DVDs are a nice companion, but the books contain the technical information.
TW reserved all commercial manufacturing rights, and this is made clear in the books. It is likely that you will never be able to buy these things off the shelf (which I believe is a good thing) If you own the books, you have the right to build (or have built) these props for yourself. Be warned though, as detailed as the books are, there are still some things you have to figure out for yourself (I beleve this, too, is a good thing, and deliberate). I'm currently building his watch in nest of boxes (method 3), and there are a number of details left out. I also perform RWW. I am truly grateful that Tommy shared his lifes work with the magic community, and I am truly grateful that it will remain valuable because he didn't give it away on a silver platter. |
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Jsmith45 Regular user 124 Posts |
Well said Carducci.
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
You can actually buy something very, very close to the Rubiks Card Box from Steven's Magic. Same method and everything (and knowing Steven's, I'm sure it's authorized). Not sure of its name, however, but it has been in their recent catalogs, so I know it's available.
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Matthew Wright Special user 551 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-06 00:08, Carducci wrote: This is an old thread but this quote relates to a question I have. It is purley theorectical so please don't attack me with morals. If you own the books (or I guess DVDs) you are allowed make the effect yourself or to have someone make the effect for you? That doesn't seem a million miles away from buying the effect. What if a manufacturer made the effect and included a copy of the book with the purchase? Or what if the effects were made to order? A prop builder advertised the prop but before he started to build it he sent you a copy of the book? It seems like a very grey area to me. |
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
I understand your question and believe I know part of the answer, but I don't want to guess. I'll draw this to Bill Palmer's attention. Bill knew Tommy personally and he has helped settle this issue before for me and others.
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puggo Inner circle 2022 Posts |
I would recommend the 'Books of Wonder' as a really enlightening read anyway, regardless of if you wanted prop building instructions. The psychology and (perfoming) beliefs of Mr Wonder are inspiring.
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Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5203 Posts |
Hocus Pocus have some of Tommy´s wonderful creations.
http://www.hocus-pocus.com/ (just search for tommy wonder, easy) Tommy´s Wild card routine called: The Tamed Card is a superb card routine and very entertaining. You only need a standard set for the Wild Card routine to perform it. |
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Matthew Wright Special user 551 Posts |
Thanks for the answers so far. The more I think about it the more I realsie that I am not just talking about Tommy Wonder effects but about any effect that is published.
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tgold65 Regular user 194 Posts |
For the tamed card, I would recommend buying 3 double backed decks and that will give you enough double backers to make up a bunch of tamed card sets. As for his other effects, it seems as if it almost against the spirit of the man to buy the effects.
Outside of the nest of boxes, I think everything else can be made fairly easily. I went to Michael's to buy what I needed to create the bag for the cups and balls routine. RWW would require some work to do it exactly as he did, but you don't have to use his method exactly, which is part of the point anyway. The value in having to make this stuff is two fold: 1) It makes you think about your approach. Should I do it just like TW or should I modify it somewhat. Can I improve the effect and/or the method even more to fit me. 2) Most people won't build these effects themsevles so it keeps the number of magicians performing the effects to a minimum while still sharing the thinking behind the effects. |
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konjurer Veteran user Iowa 395 Posts |
I don't think it's really that gray of an area. You're not manufacturing and reselling the effect or prop. You're not using a trademark or name in the marketing of a product. You are just building the prop, or having someone else build the prop, that Tommy Wonder is telling you how to build. Tommy tells you this in so many words - that you can make or have some make the props in his video such as when referring to his beeper device.
I think that applies to any video or book unless the author explicitly asks you not to make something used in the execution of the effect that is being taught - which would be quite a ridiculous restriction. I can understand the author telling you to buy an accompanying prop, gaff or gimmick from him or herself. And I think it would be the right thing/nice to do - but I don't see it as necessary or unethical to make a prop if you've purchased the method from the creator.
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Clever stuff goes here! |
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Matthew Wright Special user 551 Posts |
OK,
Let's say I have built the nest of boxes (which I have). I am well within my rights to build it because I own the books and DVDs. Here is the theoretical bit. Now let's say a friend ( I have some) who also owns the books and DVDs wants me to make one for them (they have NOT). It is still ok for me to build it for them- and charge them for my time (I haven't done this). Now a few of their friends (who also own the books and DVDs) ask me to build one for them. (they haven't) Before long I am known as the guy who can build the Wonder Nest of Boxes and people from all over the world are asking me to build them. Every one of these people own the books and are well within their rights to ask someone to build the prop for them but I am guessing that I am now breeching the commercial rights? |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
I don't see anything wrong with that. All people that have requested the nest of boxes have the books/dvds. Maybe they are not that handy with tools. As long as you're not manufacturing these items for public purchase then you are doing nothing wrong. That's just my opinion.
You are entitled to get paid for your time and materials.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-16 15:07, matthew wright wrote: I believe apparatus might fall into the category of patentable items. (I think, anyway) If that's the case, you'll need to know if somebody has a patent on the item, since the point of patents is to protect people who invent something from having their idea taken and manufactured and sold by somebody else. I think, anyway. Bill Palmer's going to be the one to ask.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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konjurer Veteran user Iowa 395 Posts |
I agree with edh. I don't see an ethical issue in your nested boxes scenario. I see you as providing a valuable service to all of the people that bought the nested boxes DVD or book and do not have the resources or talent to construct the needed prop.
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Let's say Tommy Wonder's family doesn't agree with all of you. Let's say that buying a book or a DVD does not give you rights to manufacture an item. If you provide none of the inspiration, but are blithely copying the ideas of a man, now dead and profiting from it you're stealing.
If you are craftsman enough to make up some of Mr. Wonder's more complex sets of props and gaffs, why not dream up your own wonderful effects and presentations and build those? I recently published an original work, a manufacturer decided to market props to do that effect. I know I didn't care for it. I realize talking to Tommy Wonder would be difficult. Could you at least try to contact the Wonder estate before you crank out five or ten sets of props and start putting ads in Genii? They may have plans to do the same thing. Do you want to compete with Tommy Wonder's rightful heirs? I think the path Pepka and Erlandish pointed to would be an excellent first step, if you actually have some morals. If you are so fond of Tommy Wonder's legacy that you'll take the time to build his props, take the time to honor, what I'll guess would be, his wishes. Just a different point of view to chew on. I have no idea what is ethically correct for any individual. It all comes down to an opinion. |
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organicmagician Veteran user USA 345 Posts |
So many people here have what I think could only be described as an anti-scientific attitude. Some great ideas were created by T.W., he deliberately and profitably (not that magic books/tapes make all that much, but...) shared his ideas. He further made no attempt to reserve legal or moral rights to using his designs. To use his items, play with them, perhaps improve is to use the accumulation of knowledge for ends that further the craft.
If you buy the book, you can make item or have someone make it for your use. This is a legal certitude and a moral/philosophical opinion. If you love an effect, purchase it and use it, that's great. If you start manufacturing an item for people instead of building a trick for yourself, that is a different question. That would not be illegal. T.W. didn't advertise patents on any of his inventions and even if he did, most (or all) would have expired by now. But, that would present a different moral and philosophical question. I think magicians do this kind of thing all the time on a low-key basis, but you should request permission if you care about respect for T.W.'s wishes and want to manufacture his ideas. |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Well, like I said, I'm no expert on patent law, but I believe Palmer knows a thing or two about manufacturing rights insofar as European magicians are concerned, which is why I think it would be worth contacting him. Truth be told, it might be a moot issue legally if we're talking about a patent registered in Europe and Matthew Wright is working elsewhere, or if the duration of the patent has expired (impossible to say without knowing the terms of the registration). Still, it might be worth making sure that in trying to get a few short-term bucks you're not setting yourself up to be the next great Pariah in the magic community.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Matthew Wright Special user 551 Posts |
Just wanted to point out again that I have not made anything for anyone and have neither the skills or inclination to do so. This is a theoretical question. I just thought this was an interesting topic.
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