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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Donald
On a Saturday, or Sunday afternoon in the Summer time I do three to four parties each day. I never spend more than one hour at each house. It doesn't look to me like you can do more than two parties a day.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Magicalpro Regular user Denver, CO 155 Posts |
First Class Magician:
I think you are way out of line. I don't know Todd, but to believe that a 3 minute set up is not possible or NOT professional, is erroneous. It is possible with design. Think about it, are there not tricks in your show, that require NO setup time, there are in mine. For me though I choose to do some tricks that do require a bit of setup, but I could easily switch them out for something that I have done in the past that requires no set-up. In my Summer Show this summer, 3 of the tricks I do, last for about 21 minutes, and require absolutely no set-up and play big. But for me the other 24 minutes I have included some silk magic that require set-up, so I have opted not to do a similar 3 minute setup, but it takes me 15 minutes, and that includes the PA system, and backdrop. (so I arrive at thier front door, 20 minutes before) My backdrop is a 30 second setup backdrop, (I don't hook all the hooks) fron Tim Sonnefelt, 45 seconds down and packed away. MY PA is an Lectrosonics (no longer available model) but it is a self contained PA, plug my MP3tech into it and I am set, sound checks(?), there is no mixer board, no extra cables, it works, I have used in 100's shows, I know by the room size where I want the volume knobs at. So whatever sound checks need to be, it takes maybe 5 seconds, lets see..."testing 1,2,3" yep 5 seconds. What I am saying is it takes less than 3 minutes for me to do backdrop, and sound, so if all the magic I chose to do, was of the no set-up type, why do you think it is not possible to do 3 minute set-up? It's all about the tricks you might include in your show, let's think some that require no set-up Linking Rings Chineese Sticks Rope Routines un gimmick Misers dream The secret to doing a quick set-up show is that it must pack away the same way it will come out, BUT IT MUST NOT LOOK to your audience that you are packing it up, it has to appear you are just putting it away. In your show are there tricks that you handle multiple times: 1. Take it out of your case, and do a set-up to it, and then move it somewhere to ready for show. 2. Perform it, and put it away somewhere quick and out of the way 3. Un -set it (somethings), re-arrange it, put it away, somewhere safe so it doesn't get damaged a lot of wasted time, necessary for some props, but what if you chose props and tricks for your show, that don't require you to handle things so many times before and after the show, and you just had to open your suitcase, or suitcase table, and there it was. Yes 3 minute set-up is possible. HOWEVER: disclaimer: I personally geared myself to that when I was younger, and after having done it for a while, I found that for me personally, I was allowing my desire to design a non-setup show, interfere in doing the best show I could, I am not saying that is the case with Todd, that was a mistake I was making for myself, and the bell went off, when I arrived to do a show, with just a briefcase in hand, and the client met me with disapproval, even before she saw my act, she assumed that I was "nothing", since I had hardly sanything. Even if I can assume, I won her over after my show was done, I realized, that I had to fight an uphill battle with her. So the next day, I took the same show, moved it into a suitcase table, and continued, along, eventiually swithing out what I thought maybe were weaker tricks, that I had chosen just because of thier no-set-up. From what I have read from Todd's other posts, we are similar, in that we are Road Warriors, it is not about doing big Illussion shows(at least with me), with lights and special effects, it is about performing where most audiences are 25-80 kids(not including birthday parties)it is about getting in to a daycare, or library, doing a "Great Show", getting paid and getting out, and on down the road to the next gig, how else am I going to do 3, 4 or 5 shows a day all between the hours of 9:30 am and 4:30 pm, and all at different locations. Bottom line, it is possible, I have done it, just don't make the same mistake I made many years ago, and let the "short set-up", push you into a less quality performance. |
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
You will indeed get the odd dirty look from a booker and this is probably as a result of them previously booking some chappie who brought everything but the kitchen sink with them. However these people are in the minority and if they don't like it then they can lump it. There are certainly a few disadvantages of working light but the advantages far supercede them. You have to be GOOD though. Most people who resist a small show simply do so because they can't hack it. They know full well that they are just not good enough to get away with it. You need a lot of showmanship and personality to do it and you can be rest assured that anyone that does follow this path will be a *** good entertainer. They have to be if you think about it. The MAGICIAN should be the magic not his bloody props.
As for Ken Scott I am not being facetious when I complain about his twisting the arm of a puppet in his show. We all know that the puppet feels no pain and even the kids know that in their hearts. However it send a very bad message to children that it is all right to twist arms. I am quite serious about this. There is such a thing as suspension of disbelief and the kids suspend their disbelief that the puppet is really an inanimate object. The suspension of disbelief factor is subject to a jarring note when the beloved crocodile is hurt even though the kids laugh. Ken should eliminate this piece of business forthwith. In a punch and judy show the puppets themselves are doing the hurting. That is acceptable but when a human being hurts the puppet I consider it unacceptable. But back to this pack flat, play big nonsense. It reminds me of the time that Max Malini showed up for an exclusive private affair and the hostess was horrified that he didn't bring a trunk full of equipment and had everything he needed in a small briefcase. He retorted, "Madam, I AM the show!" There is a lesson to be drawn from this. It is not the tricks that make the magician, rather it is the magician that makes the trick.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
WOW it just hit me everyone lets welcome back Mark Lewis AKA Tom Riddle.LOL
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Al -
You'll need to re-read my post. I never said how long it takes me to set up or pack down, or for what sort of shows takes what amount of time, nor how many shows I do in a day. We also haven't discussed how early a performer should arrive at the venue. I'm not interested in comparing number of shows, prices per show, or anything like that with other performers. There is some information about myself I choose to keep private. Do what works for you, and I'll keep doing what works for me. If we all did things the same way, there would be no variety available for customers. Again, quicker is not better. It's just different. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
So you arrive early, work slower, cary big props, and do the same amount of shows?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
Al: So you arrive early, work slower, cary big props, and do the same amount of shows? You seem to have trouble grasping the meaning of "private". - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
Don't be silly Kenneth. You are as bad as that grumpy old misery Don Driver of accusing me of being the wrong person. In the past you have accused me of being Jolly Roger. I do wish you would make your mind up.
I am NOT the very working class personage you mentioned. I have been on this forum rather a long time you know. All the moderators have to do is check out the IP address. Now do not make assumptions in future without providing proper evidence. You are obviously trying to distract attention from my point which is perfectly valid. It really is about time you stopped torturing crocodiles. Before you can chatter about the art of entertaining children you should try and improve yourself my boy. Far too much profanity on your part at magic conventions and partaking of the devil's buttermilk. I am going to appeal to the gospel magicians on this forum to keep young Kenneth on the path of straight and narrow. He really has been going a trifle astray lately.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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Tom Riddle Special user Chelsea, UK 507 Posts |
Dearie me. I have been worrying about poor old Donald for some time. The chap tries very hard to win friends and influence people but can't quite manage it. He read a book by Dale Carnegie explaining how to do it but he hasn't mastered the technique yet.
I would have thought that he should follow his natural instinct to lose friends and alienate people. After all he does not seem to be able to follow Carnegie's dictum of never arguing since he does it all the time. It doesn't seem to have occured to him that Dale Carnegie was a divorced man. Therefore there was certainly one friend that he didn't influence. I expect she didn't remain a friend either. Methinks Donald should forget all that marketing guff that he reads all the time and concentrate on being an entertaining fellow when he does his show. He will then be able to give up his job and become a professional magician so he can starve like the rest of them. The chap takes life too seriously. All that guff about privacy when everybody knows everybody's business in Victoria. There is an old lady who lives across the street from Donald and she tells me all his business. She is my third cousin twice removed and is 93 years old. Her name is Agnes and she is a most awful woman. I have begged her not to come on to this forum to give out all Donald's secrets. So far I have succeeded. I do hope Donald is suitably grateful.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"
Thomas Williamson Riddle III Chelsea, UK |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
O.K. here goes my thoughts regarding where this post has gone.....
First let me give you some quick basic background of myself and why I do what I do. I started doing magic 23 years ago as a kid with a crazy dream. At 10 years of ago (I am now 33) I started performing for fun. At age 12 I had my parents hauling me all over town doing birthday parties every weekend. After have a "real job" for a few years and getting laid off, I decided to pursue magic on a full time basis. I made sure my show was the best it could be. I hired and consulted with some pro's to help me with marketing, comedy, etc. which worked very well. For the past 10 years now my business has continued to blossom. I did 630 just last year. I don't say that to impress anyone and I can assure you I am not lying. Just ask my wife, kids and accountant. For many years I hauled everything you could think of into a show thinking it was what the client wanted and expected. I soon learned that you can have every magic trick on the market, the biggest and best PA system and nice costumes and you can still have a bad show. Looking back to those days now, I now know that I did not have a top notch show and I can admit that. It has been said many times and will be said a million more, props don't make a show- period. Having a beautiful backdrop, 2 speakers up on stands, a suitcase table with a custom banner looks nice and may impress the client upon entering the room. If you have all of this stuff and you have an excellent show, you are one step ahead and will go far. If you have all of this and your show stinks, you just have stuff! After being in the business for 23 years and having performed over 5000 shows and learning how to write and creat a show that will get me repeat bookings while still being in my 30's, the fact is that I am tired. I love performing and live for it. Putting smiles on the faces of children is my passion and desire and I could never dream of ever doing anything else. I just simply don't want to haul in 3 trips of stuff and take 30 minutes or more getting it together. Doing so made me tired before the show has even started. To say that myself or anyone else for that matter cannot set up a show in 3 minutes and is lying if they claim they can is a direct insult to many people in this business and I personally resent it. Going as far as to claim that someone is a lier and is not professional shows me just how little some people know about what a professional really is. I don;t want to start a riot or a battle with anyone. I just know what works for me and what I can do to make my show top notch while being able to set up and break down quickly. So the question for many is "how can you set a show up in 3 minutes?" Here is how I do it. The real secret is the way you pack your case. Each effect I do has a spot that it starts off in and returns in as well. I like "tricks" that are pack flat play big and resets itself. No, not everything I do falls in to this but most of what are in my programs do. When I arrive to the show, I put my belt pack and microphone on so that part is done. I open up my case which has my pa system and side tables in it. I put the 2 side tables together which takes about 30 seconds at the most. I place the PA on one of the side tables, plug it in and turn it on. Next I plug a wire into my CD player from the PA system, and do a quick music, volume and microphone check. Next I open the main case and move a few things around which takes maybe a minute. Next I take my pop-up banner which I forgot to mention before out of the bag, pop it into place and I am done. All of this in 3 minutes. My show actually looks big because the case I work out of is colorful thanks to some changes I made to it it brighten things up. My side table that I use during the show always has the first prop I use sitting on it. The pop-up banner which has been discussed by others in previous post really makes things look nice as well and packs really small. When I get a chance I'll try to snap some pictures and post them so that it all makes sense. Ken: you are right on the sound system. The AN130 does not provide the best sound but it does the job for smaller shows. The reason I have loved this system so much is because the wireless which is built in has a seperate volume control on it which gets really loud. I do use a lot of music in my show but it is mostly background music which is still a really big deal. My AN1000 finally gave out on me after using it for many shows. I've always had the AN130 which I've loved for smaller stuff. Here lately I've just been using the schools PA system and plugging in a wireless system to it if it is in a big room. I would never dream of using it in a school gym! Please understand that I know and understand what I am doing is not for everyone and years ago I would have never thought it would be for me either. I have found a way to make a great show happen while still impressing the client. FYI- So far I've done 8 libraries and all but one have booked me on the spot for next year. The other is waiting for a budget meeting to see if they will be doing a summer program next year since they are building a new library. Not a single person has ever told me that my setup was disappointing. My theory is that if you are getting repeat bookings, you are doing something right. I am considering adding a backdrop for the new school year but am wanting something really simple (imagine that) that looks great. I came across these... http://www.dennymfg.com/store/index.php?......temid=26 Any thoughts? |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-10 22:55, Tom Riddle wrote: Agnes is a lovely woman. I had lemonade at her house the other evening, and she showed me how to mix up a pitcher in less than 3 minutes. Who says I take life too seriously? - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
Thanks Todd. Glad you are doing so well.
As far as Tom Riddle, I was wrong you cannot be Jolly ! Sorry JR if you are reading this. Has to be mark (ronnie) lewis . Ken |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Todd,
I am in the market for a new backdrop and had my heart set on a spider. I just did a search on the Café and found this: http://www.magicbackdrops.com A customized backdrop for a thrid of the cost of the spider. And Todd, they claim it takes 30 seconds to set up! Sounds like its for you! I think I'm sold but I understand he will be at IBM/SAM with a display. I may wait to make my final decision there.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
I am well aware of those. Jeff Jones is the one that makes those and they are great. I am looking for something that packs flat!
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kesemd1 Regular user 101 Posts |
The name 'spider evoflex'
On youtube -Click here I want to buy this. but my girlfriend say 'we need to get married next year keep your money' )-: |
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Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts |
I haven't seen Ken Scott abusing his crocodile puppet, but I know it can't be better than my show, because I abuse a REAL crocodile.
... And my stage setup only takes TWO minutes. |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Rodney,
It's risky to call someone out as being a liar, because you look like a complete buffoon when you are shown to be wrong. My setup is definitely less than five minutes and while I have not stood and timed Todd with a stopwatch, I know his setup is also fast. My sound check takes about 30 seconds to walk the perimeter of my audience area while counting up to ten a few times. It's a school Caféteria for goodness sakes, not Carnegie Hall! Sometimes I don't even bother doing that. If there are kitchen staff at the back of the room I just ask if they can hear me okay! I think my stage looks great. I posted some photos here a while ago. My banners take seconds to put up. I don't use a backdrop, because most of the ones I have seen are too small to be effective and end up looking like a little coat rack behind the performer. Besides, many school stages have a black cyclorama so a backdrop is not necessary. Othertimes, if the stage is being used as a store room, I perform in front of the curtain so again a backdrop isn't necessary. I want to repeat what I have said on previous threads. There is nothing wrong with doing a big show that takes an hour to set up. There is also nothing wrong with having a show that takes three minutes to set up. They are just different approaches. But it is definitely possible to have a very professional show that has virtually zero setup time. But really, please be careful about accusing people of being liars. It's so embarrassing when you are wrong. James |
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chris mcbrien Inner circle Chicago 1235 Posts |
I cruise through here every morning, unless I'm on the road. During Summers I'm on the road a lot. Busy is good.
Cruising through here this morning I'm a little disappointed reading some of these posts. Everyone has different views, depending on their location, feedback, experience and artistic vision...I think saying someone is blatantly wrong is erroneous at best. Instead of saying "you're wrong", ask them intelligent questions about what kind of feedback they get, why they felt they need the quick set up/break down time and find out the "why's" behind the things that have been too quickly judged. Either way, a longer or shorter setup time is not a bragging point. I keep thinking it may be the responses to one's show and the repeat business/volume of shows that's really important in the long run...true in any business I think. Best To All, C |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Donald
I do not believe that the unmentionable English magician will be at Kidabra this year or ever. You will have to be satisfied with old Tom, and the jolly one.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I agree, Al. The likelihood of me meeting Mark Lewis at KidAbra is nil. Perhaps I'll meet him in Toronto sometime, at a magic convention or gathering. He'll be the one sharing his wit and wisdom.
I hope he can find time for attending conventions, in between all of the time he spends posting online. With the volume of posts that some people make per month, it's amazing that they find any time to do shows in the real world. Does anyone know of any online videos of Mark performing for children? I'd love to see him perform. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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