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Chris Berry Special user 831 Posts |
Today I was thinking if it is worth to ekep doing card work.
I really enjoy coins and it seems to me there is more of a variety in coins. Cards seem overdone and outdated. Maybe I don't feel I am progressing or maybe I haven't been thinking this through enough but coins just seem more appealing not only to me, but to spectators. People respond better to coin magic. There is 'to much work' involved in cards. Most of the time you need a card selected and then you have to make it look like it was lost then you find it in the zillion ways that are out there. Coins just seem fresh and new. Chris |
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denny_Corby Loyal user PA 240 Posts |
well are you just trying to get out of doi ng work , saying that cards are too much work. people love magic its just how you present it. if you are in magic and don't want to do work. then get out!!!!
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Garrett Nelson Special user 644 Posts |
Let me take a stab at it….
There are a few things that might be going on. 1) If you aren’t feeling to satisfied, your audience may sense it, and feel the same way. It is amazing how many non-verbal cues we receive and don’t realize it. If you feel bad about something it is extremely hard not to show it (even on a seemingly unperceivable level) 2) Maybe it is time to look for some stuff that suits the direction you are taking. If you have too many pick a card tricks, maybe you need to learn some different stuff. Twisting effects, selectionless triumphs, all backs, non-selection transpositions, poker demos….there are many non-selection effects that are just brilliant. On a more specific level, maybe you have a ton of non-visual card magic and should try something a little more flashy. Or, conversely, maybe it is ALL flashy and you need a couple of more plotty effects(note: you may now officially use “plotty” in a game of boggle). 3) Maybe coins are new to you (I don’t really know you, so I can’t say definitively). They are just the new thing, so cards are taking a back seat. 4) Maybe you just need to take a little break from cards. It happens. People can get burned out. But then again, your interest might be rekindled if you find some new types of effects that you are interested in. Hope this sheds a little light on your dilemma. -Garrett |
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ronin77 New user NYC 46 Posts |
coin work seems more impromptu to me. a deck of cards aren't exactly an everyday item: when you pull out the cards, people know you're a magician.
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WilliamWHolcomb Special user Twinsburg, Ohio 533 Posts |
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On 2003-03-26 21:57, ronin77 wrote: I would agree that a deck of card isn't an 'everyday' item but neither are most coins that magicians use (i.e., half and dollar coins). I can count the number of magicians on one hand that can do any coin effects with a quarter - much less a nickel or dime.
William Holcomb
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Stanyon Inner circle Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago 3433 Posts |
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I believe that this statement pretty much sums it up! Cheers!
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor "Every move a move!" "If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!" |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
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On 2003-03-26 21:16, Seismic wrote: I understand what you are saying. It all depends on what interest you. Some magicians can perform better with coins than cards. If the person does a good job, they are a good magician. Stay with what comforts you when you're entertaining a spectator, because it helps comforts them. Dynamike |
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Dave Egleston Special user Ceres, Ca 632 Posts |
I agree with Stanyon - But I think we have a couple of dozen magicians on this board - who may want to talk to this young man about the amount of work and dedication to be a good coin man.
Why not take it to the next step and go to the Adams Rack in your local novelty shop and just spend five minutes with a prayer vase and a spiked coin - Then go out and book a show I hope I'm misreading you, but .... Dave |
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Maestro Special user 801 Posts |
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Most of the time you need a card selected and then you have to make it look like it was lost then you find it in the zillion ways that are out there. On the surface, this statement could also be true about coins . Most of the time you have to vanish a coin, make it look like it is gone, and then reproduce it again in the zillion ways that are out there. Of course, we both know that if one goes more in depth to either of these two subjects, there are many different, creative, and origional plots that can be done with either cards or coins. Personally, some of my favorite effects involve both. I think that you should do whatever you are comfortable with and really want to do. |
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flea Regular user 122 Posts |
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On 2003-03-26 21:16, Seismic wrote: Before I begin, let me say that I'm pretty much a cards only person.(there are some exceptions, but Card effects are where my strength lies) That said Chris, you have some very valid points. I work with a partner(we've peformed at various places from Kodak corporate offices to local resteraunts) and I always tell Eric(my partner) that if we could only show one effect, it would be his coins across. It is easily one of the most magical effects you can put to a layperson. You are also correct that coin magic has the effect of seeming more impromptu. The one thing I would question you on however is your source of card effects. There are some absolutly amazing card effects where you don't do the standard "pick a card....shuffle...here's yor card....take a bow!" Some examples of great effects such as that are: 1) Reset 2) Gambler vs the Magician 3) Jumping Gemini(My highest recommendation!) 4) Hold it, buddy! 5) Invisible Aces 6) McDonald's Aces As I stated I pretty much do only card magic, and I have been a working professional for more then a couple of years and I am always pleased with the responses that I get both during and after my performances. Also remember confidence is part of the game as well. An audience can sense your energy and attitude and they feed off it. Card magic isn't for every magician, but it would be a shame for you to pass it up without giving it a fair shot. Good luck in whatever you choose, Curtis C |
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filmyak Regular user Los Angeles 150 Posts |
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I have to ask... so what? Not being snippy, so please don't take it that way. But, forgetting the fact that there are several thousand of us on this board, I'd say most people don't know very many magicians at all. There's no need to hide this when you can use it to your advantage instead. As for cards being too much work, which the thread starter stated... I agree. But I think coins are significantly more difficult to do well. Start learning cards and you'll be able to do a basic trick (that looks pretty decent) in a matter of hours. Coins take much more work, as far as I'm concerned. Not to say they're not worth it, because it's great magic! But don't do coins cuz they're easy, because they require lots of effort and practice to do well, as does everything else in this amazing art form. PS - a fellow magician/mentor friend of mine had a great idea. Whatever you're into, put a dry erase board on your wall and every time you learn a new sleight, write it down. You'll be amazed at how full the board is after a year... |
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Beetroot Loyal user 267 Posts |
Hi Chris!
This is an interesting post for me. I felt the opposite a while back. I posted something in the coins forum about "Uninteresting (so far) coin magic" because I lacked interested in that area but liked cards. To give you the full picture - a number of (naive) years ago I knew practically nothing about card magic. I thought it was all gaffed decks and annoying mathematical stacks. Then I found the Magic Café and after a while I bought the Daryl Ambitious Card DVD. I didn't have a clue how he'd managed to do what he did - and with a normal pack of cards! I was stunned! And then I watched the extra techniques on the DVD and I was stunned even further!! I think I understand what you're getting at about cards vs coins, but even with my (still very limited) skill and knowledge with cards, I can perform an effect to a friend or family member and they can't believe I've just done what I've done WITH THEIR CARDS! The problem that I had (and still have to some degree with coin magic) is that it's pretty obvious that a coin is small enough to palm. Okay, the techniques available to palm a coin are varied, but no-one expects you to be able to control one or more cards which are about the size of your whole palm without being seen. I remember the first time I saw a pass performed (something I may not bother trying to perfect myself in all honesty). I didn't know what the mechanics of it were. Then I bought Richard Kaufman's On the Pass video and I just thought "WHAT!?!?!? " . The world of cards is full of surprises and a good presentation combined with a quality effect (see my book recommendations, below) will give much enjoyment to a lay-person. I'd be interested to hear what techniques you've been learning and what effects you've been trying to do. I just had a birthday and I got John Bannon's Impossibilia and Smoke and Mirrors, and also Paul Harris' Art of Astonishment Vol1. Let me say that I am quite a critical person and not easy to please when it comes to tricks (ie. if they're not top-notch, I'll move on to the next one). I cannot recommend these books highly enough. For a lot of the card effects in these books you don't need to be an amazing master of card manipulations and know a myriad of sleights, but of course the difficulty varies. Checkout Oz's (he's a Café member) site at http://www.watchmagic.com. Theres a number of clips on there that you might want to look at. Reset, and the Art of Astonishment clips just as an example. I think cards are worth it, my friend, but the choice is yours. All the best, Beetroot |
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wesleyc6 New user Georgia 88 Posts |
I am brand new at card magic. I can do some jogging and passes and glide and few other sleights and some flourishes decently well. Good enough to fool anyway. I can't get enough of it. I love it when that new sleight was suddenly done well enough that I didn't need a camcorder or a mirror to know I nailed it. The rush I get from card work is great. I can do some coin vanishes too and I love to do them for kids with adults that are pretending to let the kids enjoy it and then their eyes are big too, but the cards take the cake for me. I don't know half of what these guys are talking about because I am only working on sleights right now and don't know very many trick names, but because of the sleights people can ask me to do something again and I usually can do it a different way. i.e. use a pass, then double undercut or triple over cut from the jog or whatever. I am just a newbie for sure, but I do love it. Is my work pro, by no means. You can even view it and see what I have left to learn. I have nothing to hide, but I will say that I can do everything on my videos better than I can when I filmed them. Some of them are after one day of practice and some after two weeks of playing with it. Good luck and I hope another beginner will help. Here is that link.
http://www.streamload.com/wesleyc6 |
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RiffClown Inner circle Yorktown, Virginia (Previously Germany) 1579 Posts |
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On 2003-03-26 22:35, WilliamWHolcomb wrote: My best work (TestaCroce) is with a couple of quarters but I do have to agree with you. When you bring out the larger coins you've left the realm of everyday objects for "most" audiences. As for the cards vs. coins, they can coexist and effects like the Matrix will give you good transitions between the two.
Rob "Riff, the Magical Clown" Eubank aka RiffClown
<BR>http://www.riffclown.com <BR>Magic is not the method, but the presentation. |
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crashfreze Regular user columbia, sc 114 Posts |
Cards vs. coins is a tough argument.
It's like do I prefer Pizza or Steak? Well I like Pizza but not for every single meal. What I'm getting at is, master both of them. And yes mastering cards is extremely difficult workload. Good luck. |
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Garrett Nelson Special user 644 Posts |
So Matrix is sort of like a steak pizza. Mmmmmmmm...steak pizza.
-Garrett |
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Sjiwi New user Belgium 57 Posts |
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On 2003-03-26 21:16, Seismic wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, Chris, but I thought the "too much work"-part referred to the fact that laymen may feel that card tricks take a (relatively) long time and involve a lot of handling (shuffling, dealing,...). Or more so than coins anyway. Reading a couple of reactions, though, I got the impression some people thought it referred to the time and effort it takes to master the effects. But this is probably the same for coin-work, no ? Just to clear things up... cheers, Sjiwi |
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crashfreze Regular user columbia, sc 114 Posts |
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On 2003-03-27 15:33, Garrett Nelson wrote: HA! Yeah I guess so. Interestingly enough I consider the coin Matrix one of the very best effects in close-up. |
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thecardman Loyal user Scotland 218 Posts |
So you think that card magic is too much work? Well, let me answer that in both directions (you'll see what I mean as you read).
Too much work (a) - practice. The Professor put it perfectly when he said "if you don't enjoy practicing, take up another hobby, like playing the piano!" If you are bored working with cards, then move onto something else! The cards will always be there for you, especially if someone hands you a deck and says "go on, do a trick!" Too much work (b) - selection process, etc. Instead of having a card selected as such, have it peeked at. That way, you are not so worried about having to have the cards shuffled as the card is already in the middle of the deck! Control the card with a pass or glimpse it and have them give the cards a quick (note that - quick) shuffle. Also, it means you can say, and re-enforce, that they thought of a card and that they are thinking of a card - not that they took a card. Just my thoughts on that matter. Good luck whatever you are doing!
My new manuscript, "The Difficult Second Album", is now available at www.thecardman.co.uk
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MichalMystic Veteran user 326 Posts |
This is agreat thread and Id like to add afew thing if you think cards is alot of work wait to you really get into coin work.
Also alot(no not all but alot) of coin effects use gaffs which are fine and on the most part will leave you clean.But this bring me to the point of how much will you spend in leanring coin work. Me i rather spend 30 buck on a card book with 10/20 routine then a a gaffed coin. Also the statement when you bring our a deck of card they know you a magican,to me this si silly cause the sec you you say hey watch this coin or go into a routine it the same thing,they know you about to some magic. I have to agree with the statement that there alot more wonderful effect then just pick a card lose it blah blah. To me saying card is too much work seem like a lazy statement and no matter what aerea you do in magic it wil take nothing but hard work dedication and hour hour and years of practice. So please don't think since you going to coins it going to be any easier. Well that enough of my rambling. |
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