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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Ben Stein interviewed on BNN (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nosher
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Without a doubt the most depressing thread I've ever read...
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Jonathan Townsend
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How are folks doing in getting to see the movie? It's due out on DVD real soon.
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Dannydoyle
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Wait, I thought we were past evolution and talking about why Payne would not date my sitster?
Danny Doyle
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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2008-10-14 12:40, Magic Spank wrote:
... Intelligent design or not, evolution is still just a theory.


Yes, just about the same as gravity. Now whether there are gravitons or invisible imps it happens that Newton's inverse square equation does a pretty darned good job of permitting folks to predict projectile trajectories, planetary motions and much more. But it's still just a theory and if those invisible imps start talking to us or change their mind about what they do...
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abc
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Quote:
On 2008-10-14 18:42, Dannydoyle wrote:
Wait, I thought we were past evolution and talking about why Payne would not date my sitster?

Now would "sitster" be a female sitter or sister who likes to sit. Either way why do you even have one? and why would Payne date your sitter or sister?
Josh Riel
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Quote:
On 2008-10-14 12:40, Magic Spank wrote:
As evidence against evolution continues to grow, scientists start making excuses:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk......4696.ece

See... monkeys don't turn into people anymore because ummmm.. it's over! How convenient. It ended right as the world is about to get all globally warm and kill everybody.

Yeah... that's the ticket.

Evolution is something you learn from a book. If you use your own brain instead of relying on others to put thoughts in your head it's quite obviously a ridiculous theory. Intelligent design or not, evolution is still just a theory.



Hmm, what you learn from another book?
This guy was made from dirt, this chick was made from this guys rib, this snake talked this chick into eating something off a tree that was bad, chick does, guy is whipped and eats bad tree fruit too, they realise they are naked, kicked out.

Snake though was really invisible dude, made without flaw, somehow developed flaw although if made without flaw shouldn't break in the first place (Not in book, sorry), biggest invisible dude says :"Not my fault invisible snake guy bad, dude bad, chick bad", we suffer, children suffer, good people suffer, everyone suffers, it's our fault because we were born, let son die to make it all better, we still suffer, I go to hell.

So yeah, throwing stones in a glass house.

One day everyone will die and realize that you are all wrong.

Except the Mormons. South Park said the Mormons were right. And me, I'm right too (Obviously)

In case no one realizes, I don't care. But I think it's funny when crazy people argue. I want to keep it going.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2008-10-14 12:40, Magic Spank wrote:
As evidence against evolution continues to grow, scientists start making excuses:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk......4696.ece

See... monkeys don't turn into people anymore because ummmm.. it's over! How convenient. It ended right as the world is about to get all globally warm and kill everybody.


This is the first sign that someone doesn't really understand the theory of evolution.

Monkeys never turned into people.

Primitive primates evolved into; Apes, gibbons, chimpanzees, ourang-otangs, various other classifications of primates, AND people based on their evolutionary pressures and abilities.

Quote:
Yeah... that's the ticket.


Yep.

Quote:
Evolution is something you learn from a book. If you use your own brain instead of relying on others to put thoughts in your head it's quite obviously a ridiculous theory. Intelligent design or not, evolution is still just a theory.


Evolution is the theory that best fits the given body of evidence. God didn't sign the glaciers people, so if you choose to blieve in ID, you'll have to explain to be what evidence (not "it's in the Bible") holds up that belief.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
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Dan Paulus
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Quote:
On 2008-10-14 12:40, Magic Spank wrote:


Evolution is something you learn from a book. If you use your own brain instead of relying on others to put thoughts in your head it's quite obviously a ridiculous theory. Intelligent design or not, evolution is still just a theory.


Our books are newer than your books. Smile

We also update them on a regular basis to include new evidence.
And don't forget... we also have the fossils, carbon dating, dna evidence, and Carl Sagan.
You have... ummm... 4000 year old story books and... Sarah Palin?
There is no great genius without a mixture of madness. - Aristotle
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MR2Guy
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Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District put the nail in the coffin for considering creationism as science.

Of particular interest was the book Of Pandas and People, a book purporting creationism trying to be slipped into the classroom under the guise of science.

When the drafts of the book Of Pandas and People was discovered and analyzed, it was overwhelmingly clear that the later books had the term Intelligent Design substituted for Creation in every instance. This is after Edwards v. Aguillard — was decided by the Supreme Court in 1987. The court determined that teaching creationism in public schools violated the Establishment Clause of the United States constitution, but that alternative scientific theories could be taught. This offered an opening for those willing to recast creationist doctrine in the language of science. The term Intelligent Design was coined to side step the rulings and try again to enter the science classroom with a religious agenda.

This word substitution is telling, significant, and reveals that a purposeful change of words was effected without any corresponding change in content .... The weight of the evidence clearly demonstrates, as noted, that the systemic change from “creation” to “intelligent design” occurred sometime in 1987, after the Supreme Court’s important Edwards decision.

The overwhelming evidence at trial established that ID is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory.

My point is I don't see any reason to even consider the theory of Intelligent Design separate from the religious teachings of creationism.
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-10-15 23:50, MR2Guy wrote:
Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District put the nail in the coffin for considering creationism as science.


Did anyone really consider creationism science in the first place? I must have missed that part LOL.
Danny Doyle
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Terry Holley
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Wow. How did I miss this thread all these months?

Some of you may remember that I started the "Just Saw Expelled" thread the night that "Expelled" opened (April 18?). We had quite an interesting dialogue going (I think it may have been over 20 pages) until it was completely deleted. I wish I had saved it as there were some very insightful posts.

I'm wondering how and why this one has kept going while that one was annihilated?

By the way, if anyone kept a copy of those many posts, I'd like to have them sent my way. I would like to know what I said!

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-10-17 21:14, Terry Holley wrote:

I'm wondering how and why this one has kept going while that one was annihilated?



Because you know who hasn't been in here much talking about how one can justify the genocide of an indigenous people. :}
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Dannydoyle
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Payne, yep, and what about my sister? LOL.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2008-10-17 22:13, Dannydoyle wrote:
Payne, yep, and what about my sister? LOL.


Yeah Payne, what about his sister?
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MAKMagic
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I've seen you guys talk about you know who...who the heck are you guys talking about? Someone PM me.

Anyway...to stay on topic...while I don't buy the story about just snapping your fingers for 7 days and creating the earth. I also don't necessarilly buy the that all this stuff we do now is just a big accident. I mean, I talked to someone from the UK on my cell phone today. I talked into a square piece of plastic and someone thousands of miles away hear me in their piece of plastic. That's AWESOME, and while it IS science...Who's to say God isn't behind science? Not I for certain...I think it's A LOT crazier to be SURE there's NOT something more than this out there than it is to be SURE there IS. I know the movie itself wasn't all that much, but a great line to take away from the MIB is "Fifteen hundred years ago everyone knew the world was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, eveyone knew the earth was flat, adn fifteen mintues ago you KNEW we were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."
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Jonathan Townsend
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But MAK, one of the basic tenets is you take the book as is or you lose the integrity behind the faith itself.

Then again since there are 6.02*10**23 (a very large number) gods in a mole and none of them seem able to use a telephone it might be more productive to just take the world as you experience it and try to figure out how it came to be from the evidence at hand.
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Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-10-17 23:49, MAKMagic wrote:

I think it's A LOT crazier to be SURE there's NOT something more than this out there than it is to be SURE there IS.



Some think it's a LOT crazier to be SURE that there is something more rather than to say they JUST don't KNOW.

I'll keep to the default position of admittedly not knowing if there is "something more" until I have been presented with sufficient evidence to the contrary.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-10-17 22:22, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-10-17 22:13, Dannydoyle wrote:
Payne, yep, and what about my sister? LOL.


Yeah Payne, what about his sister?


If he wants her back he's going to just have to pony up that ransom.

I hope it's soon as my wife will be back from vacation Sunday and it's going to be tough to explain why I've got someone duct taped to a chair in the basement.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2008-10-18 03:08, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-10-17 23:49, MAKMagic wrote:

I think it's A LOT crazier to be SURE there's NOT something more than this out there than it is to be SURE there IS.



Some think it's a LOT crazier to be SURE that there is something more rather than to say they JUST don't KNOW.

I'll keep to the default position of admittedly not knowing if there is "something more" until I have been presented with sufficient evidence to the contrary.


So Payne, please tell us very specifically what the "sufficient evidence" would be.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2008-10-17 23:49, MAKMagic wrote:
I've seen you guys talk about you know who...who the heck are you guys talking about? Someone PM me.

Anyway...to stay on topic...while I don't buy the story about just snapping your fingers for 7 days and creating the earth. I also don't necessarilly buy the that all this stuff we do now is just a big accident. I mean, I talked to someone from the UK on my cell phone today. I talked into a square piece of plastic and someone thousands of miles away hear me in their piece of plastic. That's AWESOME, and while it IS science...Who's to say God isn't behind science? Not I for certain...I think it's A LOT crazier to be SURE there's NOT something more than this out there than it is to be SURE there IS. I know the movie itself wasn't all that much, but a great line to take away from the MIB is "Fifteen hundred years ago everyone knew the world was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, eveyone knew the earth was flat, adn fifteen mintues ago you KNEW we were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."


I used to have a signature on my bulletin board posts; "Evolution is God's toolbox" which seemed to tick off both sides of the argument!

Payne;

GOD: I refuse to prove that I exist, for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing.

MAN: Ah! But the "bable fish" is a dead giveaway isn't it? It proves you exist and so therefore you don't, Q.E.D.

GOD: Oh, I hadn't thought of that! (and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.)

The nature of faith is that it exists without evidence. I don't have a problem with that as long as someone doesn't use it to screw up their (or usually) somone ELSE'S lives!
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
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