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Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-21 23:54, Chessmann wrote:
Payne, what belief(s) of yours do you think these "social conservatives" want to legislate? You state that they "want to legislate" your beliefs. Do you believe that they wish to *enforce* your belief in the Chistian God?


The Short List

State Sanctioned Prayer in Schools
The Suppression of Gay Rights
The Suppression of Reproductive Choice
The Suppression of Free Speech

To name just a few.

The same religious and faux moral zealotry that issued in the disaster of prohibition are the same people folk who have kept the useless war on drugs going all these years, try to get magazines like Playboy and Hustler banned and want to decide what is "morally" appropriate behaviour for society.

I am a classic conservative in the sense that I feel the government has no business deciding what should or shouldn't take place behind closed door between consenting adults.

And yes, there is a segment of our population who would very much like to enforce a belief in a Christian God. These are the same loons who believe that this nation was founded on "Christian" values. Put the slogan In god We Trust on our money and One Nation under god in our pledge. They want to put the 10 commandments on display in public spaces and on our courtroom walls and want christian prayers to be said before public gatherings.

I know they are a small and misguided minority and that most people see the dangers in this country becoming a theocracy. But they are out there and very, very vocal in their displeasure at seeing other people express the rights guaranteed them in the constitution that they might not agree with. They are the type of people who wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat because they know someone, somewhere is doing something that they think they ought not to be doing.

All in all most religious people are quite content to let others worship the way they see fit and keep their faith, or lack thereof to themselves.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Destiny
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They are the type of people who wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat because they know someone, somewhere is doing something that they think they ought not to be doing.


I do my best to confirm their suspicions.

Destiny
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 02:01, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-09-21 23:54, Chessmann wrote:
Payne, what belief(s) of yours do you think these "social conservatives" want to legislate? You state that they "want to legislate" your beliefs. Do you believe that they wish to *enforce* your belief in the Chistian God?


The Short List

State Sanctioned Prayer in Schools
The Suppression of Gay Rights
The Suppression of Reproductive Choice
The Suppression of Free Speech

To name just a few.

The same religious and faux moral zealotry that issued in the disaster of prohibition are the same people folk who have kept the useless war on drugs going all these years, try to get magazines like Playboy and Hustler banned and want to decide what is "morally" appropriate behaviour for society.

I am a classic conservative in the sense that I feel the government has no business deciding what should or shouldn't take place behind closed door between consenting adults.

And yes, there is a segment of our population who would very much like to enforce a belief in a Christian God. These are the same loons who believe that this nation was founded on "Christian" values. Put the slogan In god We Trust on our money and One Nation under god in our pledge. They want to put the 10 commandments on display in public spaces and on our courtroom walls and want christian prayers to be said before public gatherings.

I know they are a small and misguided minority and that most people see the dangers in this country becoming a theocracy. But they are out there and very, very vocal in their displeasure at seeing other people express the rights guaranteed them in the constitution that they might not agree with. They are the type of people who wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat because they know someone, somewhere is doing something that they think they ought not to be doing.

All in all most religious people are quite content to let others worship the way they see fit and keep their faith, or lack thereof to themselves.


Spoken like a true biggot. LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 10:08, Dannydoyle wrote:

Spoken like a true biggot. LOL.



So you support the foundation of a theocracy in our constitutional republic then?

Best hope it is your particular flavour of christianity that gets chosen as the state religion otherwise you too could face persecution at the hands of religious zealots.

Our founders saw the inherent dangers of a state sponsored church and so were wise enough to create a nation where all were free to worship as they chose, or not at all. Thus the establishment clause in our constitution.

I'd rather be a bigot who stands up for the freedoms of all than one who wishes their religious ideology inflicted upon the citizens of this nation.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 10:41, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-09-22 10:08, Dannydoyle wrote:

Spoken like a true biggot. LOL.



So you support the foundation of a theocracy in our constitutional republic then?

Best hope it is your particular flavour of christianity that gets chosen as the state religion otherwise you too could face persecution at the hands of religious zealots.

Our founders saw the inherent dangers of a state sponsored church and so were wise enough to create a nation where all were free to worship as they chose, or not at all. Thus the establishment clause in our constitution.

I'd rather be a bigot who stands up for the freedoms of all than one who wishes their religious ideology inflicted upon the citizens of this nation.


But you do want your religious ideology inflicted upon the citizens of this nation; it is the religion of evolutionism and atheism.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Destiny
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That's two - surely he can only inflict one?

Or is Payne trying to make you all bi-religious?
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 11:00, Tom Bartlett wrote:

But you do want your religious ideology inflicted upon the citizens of this nation; it is the religion of evolutionism and atheism.



A: Evolution is not a religion but a science. Last time I checked it was generally accepted to teach science in schools.

B: I do not wish atheism to become the state religion anymore than I want christianity, islam or hindu. I strive to for the secular status of our government to be protected and upheld so that all faiths can worship as they choose. I am not anti-religion I am anti-state sponsored or sanctioned religion.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
EsnRedshirt
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 11:06, plasticdestiny wrote:
That's two - surely he can only inflict one?

Or is Payne trying to make you all bi-religious?

Payne's strategy must have worked.
I believe in God, and I believe in the theory of evolution.

Hey, folks- you know, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

-Erik
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.

* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt.
Destiny
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I believe in God, and I believe in the theory of evolution.

Hey, folks- you know, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.


Brave man - you're going to be burnt at the cyber-stake - I can already hear the rumblings as the villagers gather.

Destiny
thorndyke
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Actually he's not brave, the Pope said something to that effect a few years ago.
In my junior high school years, the school speaker system started playing a recording of the Lords prayer every morning to start the school day. I never was annoyed by it, but I wonder now how many of my fellow students were more worked up over it. Of course, back then we still got strapped (which happened to me on several occasions) for misbehaving - a practice now banned.
Religious freedom to me means don't shove your religion in my face.
Destiny
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the school speaker system started playing a recording of the Lords prayer every morning to start the school day.


We had to sing 'God Save The Queen' under the beating sun.

I never really appreciated the song till the Sex Pistols version came out though at a later date.

Destiny
Dannydoyle
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You can believe in God and believe in Superman, it does not make Superman any more real LOL. (or God for that matter, or evolution if you take my point)

Payne you DO have a religious viewpoint. You have your own BELIEF. You yourself say you do not have FACTS! This is a religion buddy. You are simply biggoted against other religious flavors as you call them.

Try to hide it all you want Payne, but you should be more honest about it.

I still say the world came into existance last Tuesday fully formed and will go out of existance tomorrow and noone will know the difference.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 10:41, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-09-22 10:08, Dannydoyle wrote:

Spoken like a true biggot. LOL.



So you support the foundation of a theocracy in our constitutional republic then?


I'd rather be a bigot who stands up for the freedoms of all than one who wishes their religious ideology inflicted upon the citizens of this nation.


Never said the first sentence here now did I? But thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.

As for your second statement, well I think every biggot thinks the same thing of themself now don't they? A biggot in a lab coat is still mostly covered in white now are they not?

You want YOUR viewpoint put forth and no other. You ahve no tolerance for other viewpoints. You want YOUR ideology put forth, even though it is just the most commonly accepted THEORY, not fact. Payne you spew forth hate on a regular basis, but just because the group you spew it against does not protest you, you pretend it is not hate. Well hate is hate and is wrong. A biggot is a biggot and it is wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Doug Higley
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The great sage Popeye said "I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam".

My old Sunday school teacher, never got the irony when he told me "If you don't believe what I'm teaching you, you might as well believe in Popeye."

So I did just that. The fact that Popeye only ever had that one intelligent thing to say was very convienient to facillitate my understanding and not complicate things. I envision Christopher Walken delivering the line sometimes, in multiple ways.

I addded it to my Golden Rule as brought forth by Confusious and then condenced the New Testiment down to jut two words "Be Nice."

My religion is thus solid as a rock...anything else being superfluous.
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 12:51, Dannydoyle wrote:

You want YOUR viewpoint put forth and no other. You ahve no tolerance for other viewpoints. You want YOUR ideology put forth, even though it is just the most commonly accepted THEORY, not fact. Payne you spew forth hate on a regular basis, but just because the group you spew it against does not protest you, you pretend it is not hate. Well hate is hate and is wrong. A biggot is a biggot and it is wrong.



Boy talk about putting words in peoples mouths.

All this vehemence directed toward little ol' me simply because I would like science to be taught in science class. Like it or not evolution is the accepted theory of how life developed on this planet which is why it is taught in science classes around the world.

If you can come up with an alternative theory that can stand up to the scrutiny of the scientific method then by all means put forth your hypothesis with all of is required documentation for peer review and let your theory sink or swim on its merits.

So far creationism just keeps sinking. But that shouldn't stop you from trying. Many now accepted theories were laughed at when first postulated by their creators. But through dedication, perseverance and compelling evidence they eventually were accepted by the scientific community.

Science however isn't going to respond to your childish foot-stamping and shrill cries of "It's not Fair" nor threats of "I'm going to hold my breath till I turn blue unless you accept creationism as a viable scientific theory". That's not how the discipline of science works. Learn the methodology and work within the framework of the system if you wish your ideas to be on equal footing and taken seriously.

This is what Behe did. He had a new and novel idea, which if true would be as ground breaking as Darwin's theory. He gathered his data and published his findings. So far his evidence doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny but maybe someday he will find the proofs he needs to validate his theories.

Two things before I go.

First: Look up the definition of THEORY as it pertains to science. You'll find it has a different meaning than the one you are currently using. Hint: Gravity is still a theory

Second: Learn to spell. The word is bigot not biggot. If you're going to insult me at least learn how to spell the word so you don't look as ignorant and uneducated as you are Smile

BTW I don't hate you. To hate someone you have to care.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 11:18, Payne wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-09-22 11:00, Tom Bartlett wrote:

But you do want your religious ideology inflicted upon the citizens of this nation; it is the religion of evolutionism and atheism.



A: Evolution is not a religion but a science.

B: I am not anti-religion


Regarding A: But to many, it is the "opiate of the atheistic masses", to coin a phrase.

Regarding B: Payne, after reading your posts over the last few years, I have the impression that you have a very clearly defined anti-religious part of you. Something that goes well beyond simply sticking up for your worldview and the separation of church and state. My opinion, though.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Dannydoyle
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So evolution stands up to scientific methodology? Don't make me laugh.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-22 14:26, Dannydoyle wrote:
So evolution stands up to scientific methodology? Don't make me laugh.


Yup afraid so. 99.9% of all scientist agree. Evolution stands up to scientific scrutiny. That's wht we teach it in science class.

So I guess we're all laughing at you, not with you Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Dannydoyle
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Show me where you got that statistic please. 99.9% of scientists agree on almost NO THEORY Payne. Thus the use of the word THEORY.

For someone with such vaunted scientific credentials I am shocked at some of the idiotic utterances which come from your mouth.

This may help. Not my survey but I do trust the original poster.

1997 Gallup Poll Results[114] US Group

Young Earth Creationism ||Belief in God-guided Evolution ||Belief in Evolution without God
Public 44% ||39% ||10%
Scientists 5% ||40% ||55%

Belief in creationism is inversely correlated to education; only 22% of those with post-graduate degrees believe in strict creationism.[117] A 2000 poll for People for the American Way found 70% of the American public felt that evolution was compatible with a belief in God.[118]

Best case scenario Payne, not 99.9%. So show me your poll which proves 99.9% of scientists believe this way.

You do lose credability with every post.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Intelligent design - it's all true - really - love the way those road is paved with good thinking. Smile

Uncle Screwtape just sent a PM to say he's enjoying every post and hopes you are up for raising the despair levels. Most remarkable even when the Catholic Church as published it's position on the matter. Keep up the good work he says.

What do I say? W. U. S. S. (what uncle screwtape says)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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