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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
Years ago I owned a very unique magic trick which no one else in my region had ever seen. I rememeber performing it at a magician's banguet and it actually brought the house down.
A few months later I was in shock when a very well known magician in the magic world (and who lives in my area) went out purchased the exact same trick. Since we work different markets, I probably wouldn't have ever heard about it. Oddly enough, though, he called me up to tell me all about this. I was in shock to say the least. I never called him on the table for this as that really isn't my nature. Inside, though, I was very hurt by this. Has this ever happened to you? How do you handle a situation like this? Gerry |
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Wanlu Inner circle Manila, Philippines 3058 Posts |
So what's new?
What I do is I get stuff my friends won't buy for 2 reasons... too cheesy or too expensive.
"The Old Path"
www.angdatingdaan.org Wanlu's Affordable Puppets http://wanlu.net/ventpuppets.html Wanlu and his Puppets http://wanlu.net |
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Kevin Mc Lean New user Kevin Mc Lean 57 Posts |
Hi Gerry,
well it could all be a mistake so give him the benefit of the doubt. Also, you can't stop someone from purchasing an effect, you can really only get upset if they steal your presentation of it (often word for word). The cold, hard fact is that we live in a profession where theft is a way of life for some practitioners. An example is I spent five years pitching balloon sculptures in costume at a venue (which I persuaded to take me), then got so busy that the venue had someone else cover when I couldn't be there. This guy's lousy at balloon sculpture, and he dresses in a very similar costume and pretends he's me to get gigs. Technically, this is illegal under the Trades Practices Act in my country - but this guy is a lawyer in his full time job, so he probably can wriggle out of it. The end result was that I left that particular pitch because I can't be associated with the rubbish he produces. Yep, I could not do anything about it - so I explained my reasons to the management and left that venue. The management still recommend me to people who want someone good. Usually, you've just got to take the high road and put your energies into getting more business, rather than fighting these $(()*(*(%&(%. I commiserate with you on this, but these people usually stab so many people that they find it hard to get work anyway. Certainly, I'm getting all the corporate work this guy got off me last year as he could talk the talk, but not do the job. Now he's in a situation where the jobs he got immorally will haunt him for year in a business sense. I'm a firm believer in karma and I also fight it by networking with ethical people in entertainment. We flick each other jobs all the time and I recently got in with a national booking agent cause I'm ethical. What goes around usually comes around. I think it was Lao Tzu who said "If you wait by the river long enough, you'll see the body of your enemy float by..." Be ethical and wait by the river, Gerry... Best of luck. Kevin Mc Lean. |
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martin king Elite user 416 Posts |
I once had an amateur magical clown phone me up and he hired me to come and perform at his daughter's (or son, can't quite remember which) birthday party.
On arrival, he asked me if I wouldn't mind him video-ing, he assured me that he'd video mostly the kids reactions; so I said yes. BIG MISTAKE!!! As per normal, I was too busy concentrating upon entertaining the children and it was only in driving home that when I was reviewing the show in my mind that I realised that he'd videoed ONLY ME! About one to two months later, I was reliably informed by my brother that he'd taken his own children to a magicial clown show and his WHOLE ACT was an ENTIRE COPY of my very own (When I mean copy, I mean every single word, gesture, prop, etc)!!! You can guess who that was can't you?... |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
If someone copys your act, the best thing you can do is put together a better act than before. I agree it was ashame that person did that but what else can you do but try to be more creative.
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simchamagic Regular user 190 Posts |
I wonder if magic is the only art where this could happen or this type of thing happens also in different arts (music, drawing etc.)
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
I can certainly understand being ticked off when somebody copies your act, your costume or your original routine. If a piece of equipment is on the market, no one has an exclusivity. If you want a custom prop, either make it yourself or commission someone to do it for you. Many illusionists do it all the time.
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Kevin Mc Lean New user Kevin Mc Lean 57 Posts |
Hi Simchamagic,
I think it happens wherever you are successful. I've got two clones, despite the fact that there are a zillion costumes you could dress up in. I know successful musicians locally (at least two cases) where people have copied costumes and deliberately chosen names that are very similar. Fortunately, there is a good side to this: the people who do the copying usually aren't original and they usually put effort into everything except being good at magic, balloons etc. - but the confusion it causes is a real pain. It also doesn't do their reputations any good as sometimes people ask you about them and you usually have to let those people know why there is the mix up. Similarly, while the parents don't know the difference until the show, the kids usually know the moment they walk in the door. Those imitators sure don't think of the children and the profession suffers to the stage that we have stereotypes of crabby magicians and drunken clowns on TV. I honestly don't know why they do it. As a long term strategy it's guaranteed to shoot you down. I had one guy tell everyone I left town. It's an ugly side of the profession. Regards, Kevin Mc Lean. |
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The Awesome One Regular user Gold Coast, Australia 174 Posts |
I must admit I don't get what the problem is... so you both bought the same trick. You can hardly expect the maker of the effect to only sell ony copy.
You should take it as a compliment that the other guy thought your performance was so good he went and got one too.
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.
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Kevin Mc Lean New user Kevin Mc Lean 57 Posts |
Well Awesome One,
fair enough that in one way it's a compliment. Sure, anyone can buy an effect and that's probably not a reason to get upset, unless it's something that's become your signature. Similarly, there are some tricks that everyone does. You see, Gerry's point is quite relevant inasmuch as it seems he carefully selected this effect (even considering what other people were doing) to set himself away from the pack. By the sounds of it, he wanted it to become his signature. So I think as a point of etiquette, if the person knowingly did it (and we still don't know this point - but the other magician may have been trying to clear the air when he rang) then it was a bit rude. I know that when I was starting out, I tried very hard not to do things that seemed to be other people's signatures (or if I did do them, do them in a totally different way). I figured that there was plenty of stuff out there - so that I didn't have to do the one thing that someone was known for. Regards, Kevin Mc Lean. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-27 04:24, Gerry Walkowski wrote: Gerry, what trick was it? |
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TrickyRicky Inner circle TrickyRicky 1653 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-27 06:17, The Awesome One wrote: He may have the same trick, but he's not you. Your performance of the same trick is done with your presentation. Some years back, about 1985 a young fellow (10 years old) came to one of my Library shows with his father. At the end of the performance he introduced himself. I guess he was new to magic because he started making a list of my props, while his father was measuring my exclusive suite case to table. A month later there was a knock on my door. There standing in my drive-way was my exact suite case table,same color, with same picture of a rabbit pasted on the front. He said "my father is a teacher, but he's also a carpenter, we like your table so much the he made one for me. I also bought most of the tricks in your show". Not too long ago, a teacher at a Day Care that I frequent told me that this same person came there to do a birthday for one of the children. They told me that he uses some of my presentations including jokes and all. This same person is a regular poster on this site. I'm not upset about what he did.As a matter of fact, I took it as compliment. TrickyRicky |
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The Awesome One Regular user Gold Coast, Australia 174 Posts |
Like most everyone else on this forum I put my heart and soul into performing magic, I spend countless hours researching effects, practising, writing scripts, working on jokes and gags and developing my character.
That works for me and I think it helps make my show the best that I can do (although I'm always trying to improve). If it inspires someone to take up magic as a hobby, cool. If someone purchases effects the same as mine, cool, it means that I performed in such a way that the efect came alive to them. However it would bug me a little if someone tried to perform it exactly (word for word) like me. But no point getting upset cause theres not much you can do about it. Just keep doing your own thing, and trying to improve yourself. If however they took ideas of mine, but made them their own, and worked them to their character and style and tried to improve... then I'm cool with that, after all I'm probably guilty of that a bit myself. I would only be cranky if they ended up doing it better than me But all he told us was that the dude bought the same trick... hardly grounds to get upset with them. I can understand the thinking of wanting to keep a cool trick to yourself, but hey it's an open marketplace.
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat.
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I agree 100%. Anyone can and should be allowed to purchase any effect they see or want to buy. That is free trade and just plain business. You can not stop anyone from buying a certain car because they see someone else driving one.
However ethics do get involved if a routine is stolen from someone else. by this I mean not just the effect but the patter, music, stage movement, props, comedy lines. This is what makes you who you are and this is what makes the routine unique. To steal someone else's routine is just flat out wrong. If you are too lazy to get off your butt and learn to be creative yourself, then you have no purpose being on stage and calling yourself a magician. That sounds rough but that is just the way I see it. I spend a LOT of time working and reworking routines so they fit me, my character and my syle. They are creative creations from myself. To have someone steal it and not even realize it is wrong, just sickens me. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Lou Hilario Inner circle 2235 Posts |
I have a simple solution and that's what I do now. Don't do shows together with other magicians. That is the fastest way magicians will copy your act. Don't join shows associated with magic clubs and conventions. Limit your shows to private and not public shows.
Magic, Illusions, Juggling, Puppet & Parrot Show ^0^
http://www.louhilario.net |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Lou: I hear you there if you can do that and swing it without any problem. In my own situation, is that my wife and I perform a LOT of public shows ranging from theater shows to festivals and fairs. At these events, magicians can and will show up to watch the performance or he show and they certainly have a right to do so. So I can not prevent them from seeing my stuff.
Secondly I personally support my local magic clubs as I am a life member of rhe SAM and I also am a co-leader of the SYM youth program. This is just something I feel strong about to helping my fellow magic brothers and to also help the future stars of magic. So in my own personal situation, I can not realistically shut myself away from other magicians seeing what I do. My personal feeling is magicians as a whole should simply.. KNOW BETTER! We should all have enough common sense to enjoy an act and a routien but not steal it. Like an effect and buy an efect but take the time and effort to make it YOURS. Stealing someones routine does not make it YOURS. Just my thoughts. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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ERIC Inner circle New Jersey 1188 Posts |
Let's take a look at this from another angle...
You attend a lecture and see one or two things that the lecturer does that you like. After the lecture, you buy the effect and related props from him and then go home to work on them. When you first start to do the effect, don't you present it fairly close to the way that you see it done until you can work out your own jokes and patter that work better for you? This same type of thing happens in every type of performance art. Unless you are doing ORIGINAL material, you learn a song the way it was writen, your style may be like that singer or that one until you develope your own style. And for those who never dsevelope their own style and stop copying others, they will never amount to much, and if by chance they become a "Better" copy, well... then shame on you for not continuing to develope yourself. The magician, singer etc. who feels he/she is at their peak and stop working to improve themselves and what they do, is already on the way DOWN the ladder of success....Waive as they go by. |
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
That will teach you to work for magicians! You're lucky he only copied what you did.
Most magicians gatherings they sit there and openly write down the gags as well!
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
My only thing (and this is just a personal thing) is that I will never allow myself to perform an effect or routine lik someone else I saw. This means even if I go to a lecture and see someone doing an effect and I buy and pay for the effect and routine, I still will not do it that way. I refuse to.
It is the professional magician in me that states that I need to find my own style and my own character and create my own routines for everything I do. If that means the effect does not go into my show for a while, then so be it. My audiences deserve the very best from me and I strive to always be as creative as I can be. Just my own personal feelings is all. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Gerry -
To me, I don't think it would be a big deal if someone decided to add the same trick to their show. (I guess it really depends how much I personally favour that trick, how much I might be upset by that.) However, if they did the same routine as I was doing, I might talk with them about that, and encourage them to be different than me in presentation. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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