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travisb Special user Vancouver, BC 546 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-04 17:13, Mb217 wrote: What did it say? -Travis |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
It said:
"Let freedom ring, let the white dove sing Let the whole world know that Today is a day of reckoning Let the weak be strong, let the right be wrong Roll the stone away, let the guilty pay, it’s Independence day." I couldn't help it... Seriously, I think it simply said, "I Am that I Am."
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Silently!
Silently! This would require facial expressions!!!!!!!!!!!!! Acting!!!! And several things that magicians are NOT trained in, unless... they are. I will give you a tip. I perform magic for children as much as I can. I've learned to become funny and entertaining from this. For 10 years I was not funny for kids. Now I'm starting to be funny for kids. And it's paying off. And what I've learned thru this applies to all magic. Not just kids magic. I've learned to be creative thru this nonsense. And it applies everywhere. Where I used to NOT get a laugh. I'm getting one. At the exact same spot in a routine. If you want to be a good magician you need to be entertaining. With your words, your face, your body, et al. I need help. But not as much as I used to. Speaking of entertaining. . . what a Dick this guy is... http://youtube.com/watch?v=OqyWxQ8-e4U
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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jhereg Regular user Petaluma California 121 Posts |
Wsduncan,
Where can we find Tubthumping? |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I bought it from Bill several years ago. I know precisely where it is in my house. That's more than I can say for almost all other books I own.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
For Tubthumping, and other thought-provoking publications from Mr. Duncan, I suggest:
http://home.comcast.net/~wsduncaniv/Website.htm or the fine folks at H&R Books. H & R also carries a full line of Curtis Kam's magic enhancement products, scientifically designed to enlarge that certain part of a magician's body. Of work. Get Tubthumping. Apply directly to the forehead.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-04 17:13, Mb217 wrote: Agreed. Quote:
As a matter of fact had she said something she very well may have ruined it. Truly there was no patter necessary and the effect was as beautiful as could be. And it said quite a bit more than just "look at the pretty thing." I don't think so... Claudia's 3 Fly is indeed a thing of beauty and charm, but if you asked a layman what it was about what would they say? Quote:
Just my 2cents on it, but I think she's beyond those books and has a very strong sense of storytelling/scripting in her work, speaking or not. I agree. But in this case I don't think the story is anything other than "see the pretty thing." And as Frank noted her facial expressions bring a degree of acting to the performance that the average "coinman" certainly doesn't match with his "...now I put three coins in this hand, and one in this one. Watch" I suspect she has put more thought into her "casual gestures" than most of the folks on this board have into their words. The point is, a great deal of coin magic is weaker than the average card trick when it comes to presentation, and unless you have Claudia's charm and grace you probably should try to come up with something worthwhile to say... |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Dance routines are nice when you can set up a "formal" situation or work out a club act.
I'm sure you already know that while the magic is the medium, you are the message. Especially in closeup - probably a good idea to have something.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Good thoughts WS. I think I'll take the couple of "agrees" from you and feel good about what I said mostly.
I would also add that Mickey Silver also engages in such "facial expressions, casual gestures and grace" and doesn't use words in what he does, unless you consider his pet sound effect, "whoosh" a word as he makes those coins go from here to there and everywhere... Anyway, I appreciate your deeper words on this topic. They certainly are well-founded and are to be considered seriously in the larger perspective. Thank you. -Mb
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
If you want to see how you measure up, get a gig outdoors at a festival, sporting event, fair, farmer's market, etc. Set up a table, draw a crowd with your coin magic, toss down a hat and perform for them. You will find out very very quickly whether or not you're any good at entertaining with coins. People will let you know with their feet and with their money (tips).
Can you build and keep a descent crowd? Or do you just have the same 2 or 3 5th graders standing at your table telling you how good your French Drop is? You might think "well, I only do close-up magic" and this does not relate. You're wrong. You will learn quickly how to speak, move, look, gesture, interact, to keep people watching. If you study why and when, precisely, people walk away you'll tighen up, and liven up what you do. You'll find out what works and what does not. You'll learn to add humor, facial expressions, bits, lines, and other props to your routines to surprise and entertain. I wonder how many "top knuckle-busters" could hack it at an outdoor venue like this. It takes a lot more than "chops" to entertain. You might impress magicians with some moves at a lecture or a club meeting but that is far from entertaining people with an engaging presentation.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Regarding Lollipop ending...that is my kind of schtick...Perhaps S or L could make an expanded candy....
Harris
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Frank, that is the reason why a guy like Chris Capehart, that started in the streets of NYC is as good as anyone out there in the larger perspective. He can do exactly what you're talking about here. He doesn't do knucklebusting stuff, hasn't written any extensive treatises or put together any new slick dvd sets, he doesn't run any magical consortium or mill but can relate to anybody and has done that in a big way for decades under the hardest audiences anywhere. No white gloves or ribbons on his chest or buckles on his shoes, no fancy contests or prizes won just a good dose of what you're talking about right here.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Yep. Marion is correct. I've seen Capehart live and it's great. If you watch his coin work on the Miser's Dream DVD you'll see a lot of acting, expressions, laughs, etc.
All stand-up with coins. Nothing knuckle-busting. Just entertainment with coins. As an aside, I watched him entertain a crowd of adults and teens with 2 spongeballs for 5 minutes and he never did a single sleight ...until the last second.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Well, let's break down different types of performers and why they'd say "The coin is over here but now it's over there..."
The Juan Tamarizes of the world might say this because they want the fact of the change of state to register, and it'd be the third or fourth phase of its type, and any attempts to add what most people would call "good" showmanship might in fact detract from the mystery that people are seeing and supposed to be burning as hard as possible. The David Roths of the world might say this because the patter is really an adjunct to what's going on, and it's the way the patter matches the pacing of the effect, the cadence of it, that makes it fit. To them, adding in flamboyant patter might be the same as taking a novel, finding all instances of the word "say", and replacing it with more descriptive synonym-verbs for no reason. The David Williamsons of the world might say this because for them, the "here" and "there" are funny places, and as they are sight gags, there's no reason to actually name them. One could, but it would belabour the humour. Michael Finney uses this sort of patter with spongeballs, and in this case he's creating a sort of misdirection, getting people so focused on what he's doing with the spongeballs -- he's practically exposing the FT in that effect -- that they miss a bold move that he does later on. They're so caught up in trying to figure out if the spongeball is here or there that they don't see the climax coming. I'm not excusing the patter, exactly, but it's a tool. Patter isn't presentation. Presentation is presentation. Patter is a way of helping you get to the presentation you want. I think the main problem is that this is the sort of patter that arises when people don't think about presentation, simply because it's the easiest to default to. However, the converse of that doesn't have to be true -- just because someone uses this patter, it doesn't mean that they're not thinking about presentation.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-05 14:52, Andrew Musgrave wrote: I don't think anybody is denying that 'play-by-play' patter can't be weaved into the presentation where justified because clearly it can be useful when used appropriately. I think this thread is specifically addressing those that use it as a presentation replacement for EVERY trick or routine... |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
"One of our guests could not make it to the show - so I've put a mini cam here so they can see some of it but I'll also be needing to narrate a little so they can follow along. Hey if you like something they'd probably also get a kick out of hearing your applause too."
And so you play to the audience before you and can narrate some for the (supposed) person watching the show from wherever they are. Just a thought - what do you think?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Sorry JT but that does not seem practical in any possible setting that I can think of.
Back to the topic at hand, David Roth is very narrative in his presentations but for some reason I accept it. I think he uses good inflection and he has a bit of intensity in what he says that makes it seem natural for him.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I hold that one can create a frame where narrative serves to engage rather than confront or irritate. The idea posted earlier is just one frame (helping a person who's remote).
Back to the topic at hand indeed - why describe what they can plainly see?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
"Back to the topic at hand indeed - why describe what they can plainly see?"
JT, would that include Roth's famous refrain, "A half dollar, a silver coin...A fifty cent piece" as well, in your opinion? Seems a shame to lose that piece of magical Americana. Just heard Eric use it in his Oxy-Clean and it's a built in part of Feher's magic from head to toe. To me, it's sort of a "get-ready" like when girls rock back & forth rhythmically before they jump into double-dutch ropes to really get down.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
David Roth has his own performing character and that character has his own reasons for saying what they say.
The actor (performer) must find a meaning in the lines they say for their character and would also likely benefit from some feedback from a director who knows both the character's motivations and dramatic arc for the performance.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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