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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Reverse Svengali? (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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James F
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I was surprised to not find a single topic on this deck. Is anyone else using this? As soon as I read about the idea I was hooked. I can't see any reason to use a normal Svengali over a reverse. I used to love dribble spreading a Svengali FD and then flipping it face up to show the cards to be different but with a reverse Svengali you can just do the spread FU to begin with. Everything you can do with a normal Svengali can be done with the reverse. Not to mention that the force cards aren't short so there is no risk of a spectator noticing. (Not that I've ever had one notice, but still, it's a plus - especially if using it on fellow magicians who may notice) Another plus is the deck can be shuffled FU and still show random cards. This is another plus for anyone who knows of a Svengali. Thoughts?

James
BCS
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James,
Where have you come across this deck? I for one have never herd of such a deck.
Thanks,
Bruce
Hideo Kato
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I don't think Ribbon Spreading cards face up is not always better than Ribbon Spreading cards face down and turning them face up then. I don't think Riffle Shuffling cards in face up condition is not always better than otherwise.

There are many tricks can be done better with Normal Svengali Deck, and there are many tricks can be done better with Reverse Svengali Dcek.

BTW, there is a Svengali Deck which can be used as a Normal Svengali Deck and as a Reverse Svenglai Deck. Or Svenglai Deck and Menetekel Deck. Ellis Stanyon published it about 100 years ago.

Hideo Kato
ejohn
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I like the Mirage deck (R/S Svengali).
James F
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Bruce,

I first came across the idea in Steve Beam's Semi-Automatic Card Tricks Volume 2 although I'm surprised the idea didn't come to me on my own.

James
James F
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Quote:
On 2008-07-04 21:20, Hideo Kato wrote:
I don't think Ribbon Spreading cards face up is not always better than Ribbon Spreading cards face down and turning them face up then. I don't think Riffle Shuffling cards in face up condition is not always better than otherwise.

There are many tricks can be done better with Normal Svengali Deck, and there are many tricks can be done better with Reverse Svengali Dcek.

BTW, there is a Svengali Deck which can be used as a Normal Svengali Deck and as a Reverse Svenglai Deck. Or Svenglai Deck and Menetekel Deck. Ellis Stanyon published it about 100 years ago.

Hideo Kato


Thank you very much for your reply. Your advice and insight is very much appreciated. I have learned so much from your posts here on the Café.

I agree that spreading the cards face down and then flipping them over isn't always a bad thing, although I do think that being able to spread them face up whenever I want is a bonus for me. Of course you lose the ability to spread the deck face down and then turn it over with the Reverse Svengali but I find that for me personally, I don't really ever need to do that. So being able to spread the deck face up is a big plus. I suppose it simply matters on the routine one is performing.

The same goes with shuffling them. It just seems with a normal Svengali you can only shuffle the cards face down where as with a Reverse Svengali, I can shuffle them both face down AND face up. This seems like an added bonus to me.

I'd be interested if you could outline a basic routine where a normal Svengali works better than a Reverse Svengali. I don't mean this as a challenge but simply as a way for me to see how both deck have their advantages. As of right now, I can't for the life of me see how a normal Svengali would ever be better than a Reverse Svengali. It seems as if the normal is inferior. Of course I'm likely over looking something, especially since I just made a Reverse Svengali and haven't had much time comparing the two. But when it comes to the basic, generic things one does with a Svengali, the Reverse Svengali seems to be superior.

Your comment about a deck being able to be used as both a normal Svengali AND a Reverse Svengali is very interesting. I will be playing with the idea and see what I can come up with. Off the top of my head I'm thinking shorten the duplicates as in a normal Svengali and maybe shorten the X cards on the long sides to be used as a Reverse Svengali. Thanks for the reply and the information. It is always appreciated Smile

James
James F
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Quote:
On 2008-07-04 22:14, ejohn wrote:
I like the Mirage deck (R/S Svengali).


I like the Mirage Deck as well. I felt so sneaky the first time I played with one of these back when I worked in a Magic Shop. You can do some really great stuff with this deck. I actually just made a Reverse Svengali Mirage Deck but haven't had the time to play with it yet - I put a little too much roughing fluid on it so it's sitting under 10 pounds of books haha. I'm looking forward to using it though. Thanks for the reply.

James
Hideo Kato
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One example.

With Reverse Svengali Deck, you can not Ribbon Spread the cards face up to show all cards became the same cards.

I know some of you don't like that climax with Svengali Deck, but through my experience of demonstrating Svengali Deck more than 5000 times at Tokyo Disneyland magic shop, it's meaningless for me to use Svengali Deck if I don't do that climax.

I did not mean Normal Svengali is better than Reverse Svengali, but I meant each has each place.

Hideo Kato
James F
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Thanks for the reply. I know you don't mean to say one is better than the other. And I guess that's true, each one will always have it's place. But in general, to me, it seems the reverse is much better. Like you mentioned you can't spread the cards face up to show all the cards are the same. However, you can still do the riffle display showing all the cards the same or you can spread the cards face down and do a turnover, thus showing all the cards the same. I would rather have to do the spread face down first and then do a turnover to show the cards all the same, not to show them all different. I hope that makes sense. I'm just surprised with how little the reverse Svengali is used despite it being versatile. Thanks again for the reply Smile

James
Hideo Kato
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I knew you would mention spreading cards face down and turn them face up to show all same cards.

In that method, you can't spread card widely. If you spread cards too widely, you can not turn the cards well, and if you spread cards not widely, the impact of appearance of same cards is not so strong. If you dribble spread cards face up, you can spread them as widely as you wish. The impact is immensely different.

You dribble spread the cards face down and spectator point a card.
You dribble off cards on left hand and spectator calls stop.
Spectator cuts the deck into several piles and take a top card from any pile.

In these forcing methods, you can't use Reverse Svengali Deck.

Of courese I agreee dribble spreading cards and turn them face up to show them all different is a nice thing.

And there are tricks which can be performed only with Reverse Svengali Deck. You can find a very nice one in 'CardPolis' site by David Britland.

Hideo Kato
James F
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Quote:
On 2008-07-05 20:01, Hideo Kato wrote:
In that method, you can't spread card widely. If you spread cards too widely, you can not turn the cards well, and if you spread cards not widely, the impact of appearance of same cards is not so strong. If you dribble spread cards face up, you can spread them as widely as you wish. The impact is immensely different.


That's a very good point. I completely agree with you here. I tried spreading them and flipping them over and it really has less impact. The spread is small and cluttered and doesn't give that big visual shock when all the cards are the same. Thanks for all the insight.

James
sjling
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I have read somewhere about a fantastic impromptu any card at any number routine that utilises a reverse Svengali deck. Will try and dig out for anyone interested.
Hideo Kato
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An impromptu trick with Svengali Deck?
Any Card at Any Number? Svengali Deck has only 27 cards.

If you produce the forced card at named number, Normal Svengali can be used. It is one of mehtods aged almost 100 years.

Hideo Kato
El Satanico
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The reversed Svengali ACAAN I've seen is David Britland's excellent "The Bogus Effect" taken from a series of blogposts he made exploring The Berglas Effect or ACAAN as we know it today.

This and other effects are available free on him blog "Cardopolis".

Matt
sjling
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That's the one - thanks for doing the work/ research for me El Satanico!
sjling
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That's the one - thanks for doing the work/ research for me El Satanico!
evikshin
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Just performed David Britland's ACAAN from his blog...I'm hooked. It is so clean, and with the right presentation, it will create that coveted illusion of a "hands-off" ACAAN in the spectator's mind! Very practical, easy, and utterly mystifying to a layperson! Highly recommended.
Gaz Lawrence
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Agreed any number can be named and David goes over that . I have a better way imo which just holds the top card in box if an even number is called Gaz 🙂
Poof-Daddy
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Other than the last two replies, this is an 18 year old thread. Although, the Reverse Svengali deck did make a small surge of a comeback a year or two ago when Magick Balay performed a couple “magician foolers” on Kozmo’s “Reel Magic” “Tuesday Night Tricks” series. Before that, I didn’t realize the Reverse Svengali deck even existed but I made up two of them and find them useful from time to time. It is certainly a hidden gem well worth looking into and exploring its uses.
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Gaz Lawrence
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Total agree Poof-Daddy , regards Gaz 🙂
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