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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magical equations » » Stephen Tucker's "Impossible" (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Hushai
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In the instructions to his effect "Impossible," Stephen Tucker says that the effect is based on "a VERY old mathematical principle." Does anyone know what this principle is? I have a copy of the trick, and I understand how to perform it, but I don't exactly recognize the principle. The effect involves three objects which are moved around by a spectator according to the performer's directions while the performer's back is turned. Then one object is hidden in the spec's left pocket, one in the spec's right pocket, and one is hidden in the spec's closed fist. When the performer turns around he can name the location of each of the objects. It sounds like those old tricks based on a principle associated with the name of Bob Hummer, but the working is significantly different. It also seems related to the "Four Object Divination" in Martin Gardner's "Mathematics, Magic and Mystery," but it's not exactly like that, either. Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks.
Scott Cram
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From the description, it sound's like Bob Hummer's 3-object principle, which is a page or so back from Yates' Four-Object Divination in Mathematics, Magic & Mystery.

The pocket divination part is something he's added, but otherwise this seems right out of Hummer's Mathematical 3-card monte (the 1951 trick that brought this principle to the attention of the magic world). Max Abrams had a nice handling for this in the March 1990 issue of Genii. Some really nice work on this routine has also been done by Bob Neale in his books and in Pallbearer's Review.
Hushai
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Scott, there are some significant (maybe -- I'm not sure they're MATHEMATICALLY or LOGICALLY significant) differences between Hummer's 3-object divination and "Impossible."

1. In Hummer, the magician knows the initial position of each of the objects before turning his back. In Impossible, the magician doesn't know this; the spectator determines the initial positions while the magician's back is turned.

2. In Hummer, the spectator determines which objects will be switched and to what new positions, though the spec does announce this to the magician ("Swap 1 and 2," etc.) In Impossible, the magician determines this strictly and tells the spectator what to move where while his back is turned.

3. In Hummer, the magician does not know until he turns around what position each of the objects will be in at the end. In Impossible he knows even before the trick begins exactly where each of the objects will be at the end.

4. Hummer involves a "divination" of which ONE object the spectator selected. Impossible involves a divination (or a prediction) of the positions of ALL THREE objects.

Are these differences really significant? If so, Impossible does not derive from Hummer, does it? What other tricks is it like?
Slim King
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Sounds like something that Scott Wells did in Radio Magic back in the day Smile
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Nir Dahan
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Hushai,

do you know Aronson's "child's Play" (Simply Simon - page 31)?
Seems like this is related.

I don't know the Tucker routine (where is it published?) so it is harder to really track this down.

Nir
Hushai
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On 2008-07-08 02:55, Nir Dahan wrote:
Hushai,

do you know Aronson's "child's Play" (Simply Simon - page 31)?
Seems like this is related.

I don't know the Tucker routine (where is it published?) so it is harder to really track this down.

Nir


Nir,

The routine is available as an ebook from Lybrary.com, or from Stephen Tucker's own website -- see Scott Cram's post above for a link to an ad for the trick from Tucker's site.

I don't know the Aronson routine (though I like other things of his that I have seen). How does "Child's Play" go?

Hushai
Hushai
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I have just discovered an old thread on the Café (from 2003) that describes an effect very similar to "Impossible." The other effect is by Alain Nu and is called "Nu Sense." Here is the thread:
http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic......forum=99
Nir Dahan
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I just checked "Nu Sense" again from Alain Nu's XXX mentalism - seems like this is a *very* similar effect.
thanks for reminding me of this routine - I remember I used to like it but forgot about it.
another routine you might want to dig up is Ken de Courcy's "Dining Table Deception" from Paul Hallas' "Mindful mentalism 2"
it is done with 4 objects on the dinner table. It is slightly different and doesn't involve a prediction but rather a divination.

N.
Slim King
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Quote:
On 2008-07-08 01:10, Psychic Samurai wrote:
Sounds like something that Scott Wells did in Radio Magic back in the day Smile

I was right. I just read Nu Sense and he credits Steve Shaw's Radio Magic.
I have a fun routine that goes beyond this and is more along the lines of what you guys are talking about. It is called
The Blessing.
I've performed it for dozens of Café members over the phone, and if you'd like, I could demo it for you Smile
It's on my site too.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Hushai
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Thank you, Nir and Psychic Samurai. You have helped me greatly.

Psychic Samurai, from the description of The Blessing on your website, it looks to me like it is based on the Hummer 3-object divination principle, rather than on the Impossible principle. It still seems to me that these are two different principles for bringing about superficially similar effects. They are both good principles, however. Your presentation for Hummer is about the most impressive I have ever seen!

Nir suggests that Impossible may be classified with the "black hole" mathemagical effects, and gives me two good sites as references:

http://members.aol.com/DrMWEcker/mathhole.html

http://www-prod.pen.k12.va.us/Div/Winche......hol.html

Thanks again!
Nir Dahan
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This is why we are here!
Glad we could help
Paul
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Also in the Mindful Mentalism series (I think Vol.2) is Val Le Val's "Money Clip" which I introduced with the following remarks:

"It was Bob Hummer who started off this kind of effect, though the idea was popularised by Al Koran using tea cups (Al Koran’s professional Presentations p.129). Improvements to the latter can be found in the pages of Magick, Jack Kent Tillar’s “Mental Monte” (p.1297 or Vol 3 of The Compleat Magick) and Charles Reynolds “Conquest” (p2065 or Vol. 4 of The Compleat Magick). Both of the latter involve extra marks. In this presentation, using large trombone style paperclips, there is no secret mark or prior identification and the performer’s back is turned throughout, even before the clips are layed out."

I seem to recall Robert E Neale has a clever variant also in his book "Tricks of The Imagination", but cannot check as my copy is still back in the home country.

Paul.
Hushai
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On 2008-07-10 09:44, Paul wrote:
Also in the Mindful Mentalism series (I think Vol.2) is Val Le Val's "Money Clip"


Interestingly, Val Le Val also has a trick in Peter Duffie's collection "Miraculous Minds" called "Monte Car-lo." Monte Car-lo is the closest thing to Tucker's "Impossible" I can recall seeing. It is much more like Impossible than like Hummer (see my post above for my reasons for saying these are not the same principle).
Hushai
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On 2008-07-08 15:18, Nir Dahan wrote:
I just checked "Nu Sense" again from Alain Nu's XXX mentalism - seems like this is a *very* similar effect.
thanks for reminding me of this routine - I remember I used to like it but forgot about it.


Alain Nu tells me in a PM that he is "about to re-release Nu Sense through Lee Asher as a downloadable pdf. It will be the most detailed and complete handling of this effect available, and will include video clips, and a cool over-the-phone variation also." I am awaiting that with great interest.
Slim King
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Yes ... I'd Love to hear his over the phone version. Smile
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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