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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Gaffed Cylinder and Coins (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

David French
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Hello All,

I have begun to do some research on this classic routine and have studied John Carney's routine. Wondering if there are routines out there that use additional gaffed coins?

Any thoughts are welcomed.

thanks,

David
B Hackler
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Joe Proper cylinder and coins routine is a little different. Also R. Paul Wilson has a routine that uses a different type of gimmick.
polygonsmagic
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Andrew Gallaway has the original Ramsay handling on his DVD set. It is not 100% Ramsay, but is very close. I like Carney better. Eric De Camp also does a very nice version. I do not know if it is published anyplace. Who's gaffs are you using?
David French
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Thanks for the replies. I am not using anything at this time. I know I need the "stack" but beyond that was wondering if anyone incorporated a fli##er coin or a she##. Perhaps a triple threat gimmick of some type for the vanish of the coins.

Just trying to research the various routines out there.

thanks,
Curtis Kam
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Mike Gallo's got a version using his "Siamese Coins" gaff. There are lots of other gaffed approaches out there, but none published, as far as I know. There could be an application of the U3F gaff to this plot published, or about to be published, that sounds familiar.
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David Neighbors
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I have A handling with a shell! But I don't have it in print yet!
David Neighbors



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Jonathan Townsend
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David, there's are reason folks are hesitant to set up with gaffs for the in-the-hands vanishes/appearances on that trick - the contrast to what you can't easily manage later on when you are displaying something you simply can't hand out for examination.

Sure, every coin guy most likely has explored using all the gaffs in his possession in that trick - and sleight of hand method and pull etc - it's expected. Somewhere down that path most have come back to just ordinary coins. Heck even when I worked around the solid gaff so one has real coins under the cylinder it seemed more sensible to use regular coins for what vanishes and what appears in the hands - again simply because the trick is not done on stage and you really do want to do what Ramsay did and count those coins as you drop them through the cylinder at some point in the routine.

Anyway have fun in your explorations. I'm sure there are worthwhile combinations of gaffs and mechanics that offer very pretty visual effects. Maybe one will work out well for you. Ah what the heck, putting a fism flash in the mat and wearing another can also enhance the magic and offer some cover as well.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Lawrence O
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Jonathan,

I agree with you but there are ways around showing the coins at the end like... showing them at the beginning. If you are using silver coins, most people have not been in contact with them and it's nice to have them getting the feel of such coins. If they are presented as expensive coins, collectors items (which in my experience lay audience are prepared to believe) with highest silver content in that year, too costly to make for being circulated, you just went along Juan Tamariz's Magic Way in subtly stating that your coins are not gaffed.

Then you can switch the coins for the gaffs (for example to get the little cork... or simply doing a click pass and ditching the real coins as you look for something in your pocket that you don't find...)

It seems to me that the ony reason for me not to use gaffs, is the deep jubilation we secretly get from doing similar effects with normal coins... and the feel of such coins. I would also tend to think, up to a point that Mike Gallo pushed way back, that ungaffed special (copper, brass, silver or gold coins are special) coins offer a bigger versatility.

A point in favour of the gaffs is the noise management and their noise dissociation capacity. I developed a "Sound cylinder and coins routine" where the coins hit (first) and then clink as they get under the cylinder (Nelson Downs gimmick) and naturally the gaffs enable to allow more deliberate gesture when handling the noise aspect of regular coins. Talking to several senses instead of only adressing the visual capacity is an interesting challenge and gaffs are one way to address it.
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Dan Watkins
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The answer is yes they exist. The really good ones aren't published to my knowledge, I think except for some of Gallo's.

I know that Bob Kohler does have an unpublished handling that incorporates his U3F gimmick as referred to by Curtis above.

The trouble with something like a Triple Threat as David French asks is the sound aspect. It creates its own set of problems on how to manage. The stacking of the coins and spreading on the table become problematic as well, all which have to be done silently. I have seen some deal with this by starting with real coins, taking them out of play, ringing in the gaff, taking it out of play, etc. This is very tough to accomplish without un-neccessary trips to the pocket which imho kills the routine.

Probably one of the more inventive versions I have seen dispenses with the stack gimmick, and uses real coins with a Triple Threat/3CM. The tradeoff was that you lose some of the convincers the cork provides, and you have to seriously monkey around with over all structure.

Bottom line is, gaffs add another level of management that can be tough when applied to the structure of C&C. You just have to be aware of what you are losing and what you are gaining when you use them.
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Lawrence O
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Dan,
Since we are not doing real miracles (at least not me), every trick is a trade off and every progress results from an attempt to reduce the "cost" of these trade-offs. As you know C&C was an effect alredy in Hocus Pocus Jr (and Pinchbeck and Hoffman...) but the coins where vanished in a block under the table until L. Graham Lewis (in C Lang Neil p 163) under the title of « cap and pence ») decided to vanish the coins one by one in full view. Naturally this was a trade off since the quick trick became a routine requiring much more ability. Then John Ramsay popularized for ever his take on L. Graham Lewis idea by proving that the coins had really disappeared (at the cost of more technical skill paid in misdirection money)
It is possible to use (I know this is not new for you) a gimmick and one or two free coins in order not to loose the noise factor of the coins rubbing against one another, but enjoying the illusory capacities of gaffs with, as already mentionned in the café, the lower part of the Siamese Coin gimmick being a sh*** or a Flipper coin (as in my Lawrence O's Twin Gimmick)

I tend to believe that what Mike Gallo brought to our community (and certainly to me, back in 1966 when his Siamiese Gimmick appeared) is that, properly handled, gaffs do not induce a contrieved appearance. Search therefore should be pursued on the three fronts of technique, sleight of hands and misdirection even further than the high standards where Yourself, David Neighbors, David Roth, Michael Rubinstein, Mike Gallo, Geoff Latta, Kurtis Kam, Reed McLinotck, Kainoa Harbottle and others have brought coin magic.

I hope that you will not be offended by the consideration that reducing the "cost" of the balance between technique, sleight of hands and misdirection is a never ending process. This is nice because it means that younger generations will keep on bringing new things to magic.

After all, if the new generations were not better than we are, there would be no room left for progress. What a boring world would it become!
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Dan Watkins
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Lawrence, I agree wholeheartedly with your post. If we could really do miracles, we would not need method (or it wouldn't be a miracle). Since we cannot do miracles, but only present the illusion of a miracle, methods become necessary. My personal belief is that methods are simply tools toward the ultimate goal, which is the effect. I prefer have a lot of tools in my tool box and be able to decide which tools are best to get the job done. The real test is to know which tool to use, how to use it, and when to use it. That is why I personally don’t agree with those that completely eschew gaffs. They become a few tools short of a tool chest.

Method serves the effect, not the other way around. The more methods you have at your disposal, the better.

Personally, I love exploring these issues, and I happen to have personally spent a considerable amount with certain gaffs with this particular routine, and have learned why and to abandon certain gaffs, and why to use certain others. My post above on the Triple Threat/3CM are just some of the reasons why I abandoned that specific gimmick for this specific routine very early on in my journey. But I assuredly do not hold the belief that gaff coins have no place with this routine (the stack is a gaff afterall!). The right ones, used properly, can really help create a convincing illusion of a miracle.
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Curtis Kam
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By the way, Lawrence, thank you for the Lewis reference. That's a nice bit of research, and handy piece of information. Do you have the date of publication?
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Lawrence O
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Quote:
On 2008-09-27 07:22, Curtis Kam wrote:
By the way, Lawrence, thank you for the Lewis reference. That's a nice bit of research, and handy piece of information. Do you have the date of publication?


Hi Curtis
1902

What do you think of the two gimmicks I devised. The Twin Gimmick has really a great potential (Siamese with lower coin being a Flipper)? It has great potential in noise management. If you find something with it, please let me know.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
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