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kendavis
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What is the best fuel for tricks using glow plugs and/or flint wheels with wicks? I have always used regular cigarette lighter fluid but I have heard that some people prefer Coleman type fuel and others use candle fluid. Please share your thoughts.
mikeybionic
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san francisco
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Ive worked with zippo fluid and "white gas" (coleman camping fluid). heres the lowdown.
zippo fluid burns brighter and hotter than white gas. I think zippo fluid is better for magic because you end up with a bigger brighter flame on your candle or whatever. the flame from zippo fluid is also a little harder to put out.
white gas burns much cooler (which is still HOT) with a smaller flame and is easier to put out. its not real good for magic props, but it great if youre into fire poi, ropedart, staff, or any of that "burning man" type of firedancing. I imagine white gas is a little better for fire breathing as well.
gsidhe
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Michigan
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Quote:
On 2008-07-14 21:38, mikeybionic wrote:
I imagine white gas is a little better for fire breathing as well.

There should be no "Imagining" when it comes to that type of fire performance. If you do not KNOW what you are talking about, don't suggest it. It is dangerous and irresponsible. Real fire performers study with an instructor learning the different properties of fuels and mixes of fuels depending on the exact effect they want.

Zippo fluid and Coleman are the same thing- Naptha. Zippo has more additives which is why the flames are more visible. They burn at the same temperature and have the same properties except visibility. If you are using a small prop like fickle fire or similar, use the zippo, only because it is easier to control the application (Little nozzle as opposed to large glugging can) and transport the fuel. If you are using larger props, then go with the larger volume product- Coleman.
The less fuel you need to carry, the safer you are.
And, just a side note...
If you are performing with any sort of fire- Flash paper, fickle fire, dove pans, six foot flaming staffs...Does your liability insurance cover fire? Has the venue you are working in been inspected and approved by the fire marshall? Do you have the proper permits for the areay you are working? Do you have a fire extinguisher in your kit? Do you have someone that works with your show to act as a spotter in case something goes wrong?
If you can't answer all of the above questions, you have no business incorperating fire into your act.
"It is just a little fickle fire..." you say?
I had one leak fluid onto my hand once. I lit the fickle fire, closed it to put it out and wound up with my entire hand on fire. I dropped the gimmick, my spotter threw a wet cotton towel over it and I extinguished my hand.
I know another performer who did fire in a venue without the fire marshalls approval.
They were fined $5000.00 and the club was shut down.
You never know what can happen.
Gwyd
kendavis
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Gshide,
I can not emphasise enough what you said! Liability insurance is a must, as well as checking with the local fire Marshall, and having signed permission from your employer!

I always carry two fire extinguishers, a "fire-out" blanket, and have added on and off switches to anything that uses a glow plug. I limit myself to candles, dove pans, wallets, and fire books type of tricks. Even those are dangerous and must be handled with the up most care. I never use, and don't suggest flash pots, sparkle additives, and similar devices!

Even though I have had some pyrotechnic training I sought other opinions about liquid fuel. That is something not deeply covered in pyrotechnic training. If someone had suggested anything other than Coleman or Cigarette Lighter fuel, I would have checked it out with the nearby fire academy!

Take Gside's advice seriously! He means well and knows what he is talking about!
dave_matkin
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As usual Gside is "on the ball"

BUT I would like to add ONE WORD! I think it's quite an important one but a "fussy B'stard pedantic Brit" I feel it is important! I’m such a pompous G!t it’s unbelievable.

He said:-
"Does your liability insurance cover fire? Has the venue you are working in been inspected and approved by the fire marshal? Do you have the proper permits for the area you are working? Do you have a fire extinguisher in your kit? Do you have someone that works with your show to act as a spotter in case something goes wrong?
If you can't answer all of the above questions, you have no business incorporating fire into your act"

I want to add "YES" to the thing he said! (Or if you are on the Grammar police 2 words "yes to").

SO it now reads "if you can’t answer YES to all of the above".

Sorry for being fussy - but I know what you Americans are like!

Some Twit will be out this weekend having pulled out the flash paper and cards and filled his Zippo. He will read the check list and say

"No don’t have fire insurance, nope the venue has not been inspected by the fire marshal (oh look all the fire doors are chained shut!) - Oh I don’t have permits for fire let alone my bad Eau de Cologne. Hell its not like I am going to need a fire extinguisher or a spotter for a small piece of flash paper". SO he does his trick he sparks his lighter that he filled incorrectly sets fire to his head (his Eau de Cologne was a bit flammable as well) which in turn ends up in disaster for the club the punters and well Mr bad Eau de Cologne as well.

What’s he do when he gets home - sets up taking Gside's to court as he said it was ok for him to do it as "he had answered all of Gside's questions".

DARN how my mind works! Really it was obvious but you know you could end up being sued (I believe you can be sued for anything in the USA? even for berating out harmful CO2 now in the USA?)
gsidhe
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Michigan
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Thanks for covering my bum Dave!
Gwyd
thegreatnippulini
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of Hell because I've made
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Quote:
On 2008-07-15 08:59, gsidhe wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-07-14 21:38, mikeybionic wrote:
I imagine white gas is a little better for fire breathing as well.

"It is just a little fickle fire..." you say?
I had one leak fluid onto my hand once. I lit the fickle fire, closed it to put it out and wound up with my entire hand on fire.


Well guys, I'm not a fire performer, but I AM a blacksmith and I work with fire in my cellar workshop constantly. We blacksmiths have a saying when it comes to fire and shop safety "Big fires start out as little fires". A buiding doesn't spontaneously go up in flames. All it takes is a thrown cigarette, the right conditions; some fuel (paper even), fresh air, and that's it.
The Great Nippulini: body piercer, Guinness World Record holder, blacksmith and man with The World's Strongest Nipples! Does the WORLD care? We shall see...
http://www.greatnippulini.com
michaelmagicart
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Whatever you do with fire, let idiots like this do the experimenting for you first.

http://www.jibjab.com/view/244985

Enjoy!
dave_matkin
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Mmmmm

last time I looked magnesium is NOT explosive! (being an ex science teacher I worked wiht it a lot (i say worked I mean set fire to).

I watched it twice and cmae up with this ......

can you say spoof?

I thnk its a joke ..... with a "sreious" message but none the less a joke.
michaelmagicart
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The magnesium was to create the "sparkle". The gunpowder was overloaded. Although, magnesium in powdered form can be explosive.
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