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The Mysterious Kid
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....????????
Sorry, can anybody explain the move to me, or what is new here??
All I see is a simple DL with a slip cut under cover; but the card is replaced as always...
Normally you try to avoid any tension on the double but here you put some on ???
To me it just looks like a bad executed DL, so please tell me what I'm missing.
Regards
TMK
aron
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TMK,
I see your point, and what your trying to say. The core reason to ME ( tell me know if you share this opinion ) why I'm doing it like this, is the fact that I woulndt turn the double back down on the deck, then grab the card and place it in the center. With the winter control, you take the card and you place it in the center, as if you would do it normally without executing a sleight.

Cheers,
Aron
The Mysterious Kid
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Quote:
With the winter control, you take the card and you place it in the center, as if you would do it normally without executing a sleight.


No!!
Normally the card would never again come in contact with the top of the deck, but here it does, so it is not the normal way...
and due to the cover of the hand you could even execute a top change.. what a lay audience will most propably expect.

Regard
TMK
splice
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 13:05, aron wrote:
With the winter control, you take the card and you place it in the center, as if you would do it normally without executing a sleight.



I'll give you $50 if you can find any layman who would replace a card in the deck like this.

Sorry, it may be an interesting move, but you're kidding yourself if you think this looks like a normal way to do it. It is unnatural and abnormal in a number of ways. Your criticism of the DL lacking justification can be applied just as well to your handling.

Again, you may like it and be proud of it, and that's great. But it does not look normal by any stretch of my imagination.

Just think, if you were showing a card with the LH, holding a deck in the RH, wouldn't it be more logical to just insert the card in the deck, instead of turning it FD and placing it on the deck, then have the RH slide it off the top and into the deck, then have the LH push it in?

Sometimes, when we discover a move, we can be so lovestruck that we are blinded to a number of imperfections.
Medifro
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 07:10, Christopher Williams wrote:

Not going to criticize you for attempting to create or make variations etc, but all I would like, is an explanation, or reason as to why the need for an extra move, when you could, as said before, just flip the double face down and insert the indifferent card into the centre...what was your thoughts and reasonings behind this control?

Thanks

Although this descepancy goes nicely, which time has proven, but I for one try to overcome it. I think its perfectly fine to turn face up, into face down, then deal ( and I do this quite often, as any other card worker ), but its always nice for me to work out things with a more logical sequence, or sequences that flow better, and I did come up with few solutions ( and a VERY few practical solutions ) one of them is very close to the Winter Control in principle, but different ( and inferior in my opinion ) methodology.

I like this mate, and looking forward for its release.

And by the way, I went to many countries and yet to find a laymen to do a double undercut.

~ Feras
aron
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Hey guys,

We all have diffrent opinions of what looks the right way, and what doesn't. To me, this is the way I'd do it. I just hope someone can ever use it in their performance, or whenever they need to.

Thanks for your comments so far, keep em coming Smile
Cheers,
Aron
Medifro
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I think my post came at the same time your post, and I don't want you to mess it Smile

Looking forward for it. Some people love this.

Cheers,
~ Feras
AltonThrash
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 10:46, aron wrote:

AT: Your wrong Smile

Aron
http://www.aronprinsproductions.com


Yeppie!!!! Glad I am. Smile

AT
jekyllandhyde
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Aron,
I'm sure your intentions are noble but please forget practicing and using this move. Your time is better spent studying The Dai Vernon Book of Magic. Particularly the chapter titled "The Vernon Touch".
Bob Farmer
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Well, you've asked for comments so to be frank: it looks awful, it makes no sense and it has terrible angles. The big problem is that it is unconvincing because it does not look anything like what should be happening if you were actually putting the card in the deck.
BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 13:05, aron wrote:
The core reason to ME ( tell me know if you share this opinion ) why I'm doing it like this, is the fact that I wouldn't turn the double back down on the deck, then grab the card and place it in the center. With the winter control, you take the card and you place it in the center, as if you would do it normally without executing a sleight.


Aron,

I've shown your move to ten non-magicians, without giving them any information in advance. Eight out of ten people were able to discern what was done, and ten out of ten were able to tell when it was done. If that's the case, you haven't accomplished the goal that you described in an earlier post.

In my opinion, the move exudes what Marlo used to call 'fascinating suspicion.' It has the pacing and attitude that says, 'catch me if you can.' Your move adds all kinds of extra actions and muscle movements to a procedure that ought to be simple and unpretentious, the turning of a card.

With all due respect, there are many better ways to accomplish your goal, and they're already well documented in the literature of card magic. Please get in touch with some of the more knowledgeable card guys, and take a look at some of the alternatives to your move.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
JTW
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I agree with the last two responses as well.

My question for Aron (following on the experiment of Mr. Fernelius') is this,

What do the spectators, who have caught you out on the move, say?

Please be honest with us or if not us with yourself. What conclusions did you draw from the remarks?

thanks
Ben Train
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I'm going to jump to the defence here.

I'm not sure why everyone here is suggesting that the first poster is unfamiliar with standard magic texts, or that he's ignorant of previous published methods, unless I missed something.

The poster came up with a move. If you want to discuss it's merits, by all means do so. But unless the poster has explicitly said he hasn't read a lot of sources, lets not jump to any conclusions.

Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
phread
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 19:54, Ben Train wrote:
I'm going to jump to the defence here.

I'm not sure why everyone here is suggesting that the first poster is unfamiliar with standard magic texts, or that he's ignorant of previous published methods, unless I missed something.

The poster came up with a move. If you want to discuss it's merits, by all means do so. But unless the poster has explicitly said he hasn't read a lot of sources, lets not jump to any conclusions.

Ben


here is why Ben. he did not invent anything! it is a very bad handling of a very old method that anyone into magic should know. This is a typical newbie thing,-note he never said handling or variation!-the only reason one would claim to have invented a move that is very old is simple.

that said...keep on thinking

dug
Deckless Wonder
Ben Train
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 20:12, phread wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-07-21 19:54, Ben Train wrote:
I'm going to jump to the defence here.

I'm not sure why everyone here is suggesting that the first poster is unfamiliar with standard magic texts, or that he's ignorant of previous published methods, unless I missed something.

The poster came up with a move. If you want to discuss it's merits, by all means do so. But unless the poster has explicitly said he hasn't read a lot of sources, lets not jump to any conclusions.

Ben


here is why Ben. he did not invent anything! it is a very bad handling of a very old method that anyone into magic should know. This is a typical newbie thing,-note he never said handling or variation!-the only reason one would claim to have invented a move that is very old is simple.

that said...keep on thinking

dug


Really? That handling? Everyone should know.

Alright then- name me three sources that explain that move, and application, as shown.

But, lets suppose the move IS a classic, and everyone should know it (which is a very silly comment)- meaning the poster is a beginner. In which case, wouldn't it be better to point him in the right direction rather then to accost him?

Eagerly awaiting your response,
Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
Medifro
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 19:45, BarryFernelius wrote:
Aron,

I've shown your move to ten non-magicians, without giving them any information in advance. Eight out of ten people were able to discern what was done, and ten out of ten were able to tell when it was done.

While magicians would be able to know what was done ( I knew too ), but the move itself, I think the finer details is whats important here.

I worked out many methods using the same principle ( so as other people ), though I loved how the steal was accomplished ( and more like if its that smooth, would love to know the details behind it ). Maybe I love this move because the principle is something I worked on alot, always interested in seeing other cardman's thoughts.

As for being natural, I'm a firm believer that being natural is context dependent, if its natural to your card handling style, or according to the theme of the effect, even flourishy cuts can be extremely natural. The term "natural" is commonly used for moves that fit in almost every context. I hope I won't get hit for saying this Smile

Running in a lecture hall isn't not natural, but running in a running field is. In any case, I think the move is perfectly natural in some contexts, some which I'm particularly fond of.

It has been said above that the angles are terrible, this is the first time I hear this as an excuse to NOT publish something. Its a downside, a negative thing, but not certainly not something that prevents publishing ( or go complain about The Tabled Palm Chapter in Marlo's Rev. Card Tech. )


~ Feras
aron
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Hey guys,

What a posts Smile Ill reply to a few.

Mr.Fernelius,
Thanks for doing to ten more people what ive been doing for the last two yrs. I have no explanation to the fact that you got caught, I just know that ive never been.

JTW,
As said, ive never been caught on this move. I don't know why, it just never happened. Ive always used it in my acr routine, after a normal double lift to be exact.

People, please remember ( if I havent made this clear enogh yet ): The Winter Control is a utility, which you can use for a heckler type of spectator. They can look at your hands, and still see the card fairly go into the center.

Ben, and others who speculated about this,

I not new to magic, ive been doing it for more then 10 yrs now. Ive created more, which has been in print before ( so is the Winter Control btw Smile ). My only reason to publish my material is to give something back to the people that have given me so much the last decade.

Im looking forward to more reply's!
Keep em coming:D
Cheers,
Aron
Tim Sutton
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 05:40, aron wrote:
Hey guys,

What a posts Smile Ill reply to a few.

Mr.Fernelius,
Thanks for doing to ten more people what ive been doing for the last two yrs. I have no explanation to the fact that you got caught, I just know that ive never been.



I imagine that what Mr Fernelius meant is that he showed them your video. Barry, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Tim
BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 05:40, aron wrote:

Thanks for doing to ten more people what ive been doing for the last two yrs. I have no explanation to the fact that you got caught, I just know that ive never been.


Aron,

I did my best to be polite, but I can't let this pass by without comment. Let me make this crystal clear: I didn't get caught while performing your move. In fact, you couldn't pay me money to use your move in any context.

So, let me clarify this. I showed your move to ten people BY SHOWING THEM YOUR VIDEO, and eight out of ten people knew WHAT you did, and ten out of ten knew WHEN you did it.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
Eric Falconer
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Aron,

Define "Getting Caught"...

Is that when they call you out on the move and say something along the lines of "I saw that....."

Just because they've never said anything does'nt mean you've "never" been caught. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that you "have" raised suspicion with that move... and just not realized it.

One other thing.... Unless I misunderstood Mr. Fenelius's post.... HE didn't get caught doing your move.... he just showed them the video of YOU doing it and they caught it.

Every move has it's motivations and reasons....and proper usage...Even the Winter control.... some are better than others for different situations. Some are better all around simply because they can be done in almost any situation, they're more universal.

A double lift.... replace the DL..... take top card.... insert....
Works almost every time.
Eric Falconer

Houston TX
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