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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » The Winter Control (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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aron
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Mr.Fernelius,
Hereby I apologize for my actions. I had no idea that you showed them my video, instead of you performing it.

Cheers,
Aron
aron
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Hey all,

The new and final trailer will be uploaded in the next hour.

Cheers,
Aron
JTW
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Fair enough Aron.

Part of the problem I think is how its being shown. You are highlighting the move for us. It is static in your execution and outside of the nature of a sleight (which is dynamic and contextual).

If you have footage of you performing for a group of people it might help illustrate the pace and timing as well as your attitude in relation to the move. I think that may be more helpful.


My feeling is (and I'm formulating this opinion based on what the others are writing as well as my own thoughts) that the trouble arises because you are calling attention to something that is inconsequential really. What I mean is the spectator should believe that you are putting the card into the center, yes? They should not suspect anything else is happening or going to happen at that moment, Yes? If they are thinking (or saying) "it's on top" before we get to that moment the problem isn't sleight of hand. The elegant nature with which you perform the Winter Control accentuates the importance of the moment. A moment which should go on just outside of the active attention of the viewer.

Think about it in these terms, you say that the spectator is a "heckler type". Why are they a heckler? Is it because they don't believe you are truly putting the card into the center? Now if that is the case the question then becomes "why don't they believe your putting the card into the center"? Is it because they don't trust you because you're a magician? Is it because they know about the DL? Did they trust you, then lost that trust by seeing something that relayed to them a method?

Aron why do you think the people here are hesitant to embrace this move? It is elegant, meaning you execute it well. What are the negatives? What are the positives? How does it differentiate itself from other methods that are similiar?

I'm interested in hearing your answers.
splice
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So am I. So far, nearly every criticism of the move seems to have been countered with "I like it, it works for me, I never got caught".

To me that doesn't begin to adress the unnaturalness of this move. If there is no justification deeper than "I think its a nice and clean way to show your spectator that the card ''really'' goes in the center of the deck", then there really is no justification at all.

If you really don't want to debate the move further than "it works for me, I am uploading a trailer for my commercial release, please look at it", shouldn't this message be in "Latest & Greatest", like the other release announcements?
aron
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Guys,

new trailer is up on the product page, as well as the pricing.

Thanks for your interests and comments.
Cant wait for more!
Cheers,
Aron
Joshua Barrett
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Personally, I don't see the point. wouldn't a double lift work the same? or a top change, even easier. heck if you want to be "modern", do clip shift then put the top card in the middle. even a illogical double lift move would look better, the replacement and odd movement is just that, odd.... with no real benefit.

I wouldn't care except for the fact your selling this. being that kids are going to pay for and have yet again another source for the wrong way to do things
splice
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 12:58, aron wrote:
new trailer is up on the product page, as well as the pricing.


I guess we got our answer as to whether this was an honest call for feedback or an unpaid advertisement.
BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 12:43, JTW wrote:
Part of the problem I think is how its being shown. You are highlighting the move for us. It is static in your execution and outside of the nature of a sleight (which is dynamic and contextual).

If you have footage of you performing for a group of people it might help illustrate the pace and timing as well as your attitude in relation to the move. I think that may be more helpful.

My feeling is (and I'm formulating this opinion based on what the others are writing as well as my own thoughts) that the trouble arises because you are calling attention to something that is inconsequential really.


Exactly! And Aron's ad copy doesn't help the situation. The ad copy reads:

"A clean control, where the spectator should look at your hands!"

In other words, a control that dares spectators to catch you, and then pretends that nothing is wrong when they do. Yikes!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
aron
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Barry,

I've always used the winter control in the way as I advertise it, so I suggest other people to do so to! With the winter control, ive always dared people to catch me... ( and if they did, they would have told me since they've told me if they catched me with other moves I do..
If it works for me, why not for anyone else?

Cheers,
Aron
Reality
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 13:46, aron wrote:
Barry,

I've always used the winter control in the way as I advertise it, so I suggest other people to do so to! With the winter control, ive always dared people to catch me... ( and if they did, they would have told me since they've told me if they catched me with other moves I do..
If it works for me, why not for anyone else?

Cheers,
Aron



Daring people to catch you is a dangerous and unwise thing to do. Why arouse unnecessary suspicion. If the the move works for you, great - but always be ready to admit "your" move has faults. Every move does. I would personally prefer Derren Brown's "Velvet Turnover" in such a situation as the p*****g is done on the off beat rather than while the heat is on your hands. A simple top change or double lift also works wonders. However, this is just my taste and of course you have your own opinion, but be ready to accept criticism on anything you open a conversation on. Use criticism as a way to improve on your technique (in general, not just this move), rather than denying it and acting omnipotent. I have seen similar things, but great job on thinking for yourself. That is a positive step ANYONE could make. I can't tell you how many times I've reinvented sleights, but I'm still extremely proud to have discovered them for myself.

~Nick M.
aron
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Nick,

Every move has faults, ill never disagree with that. My move ( in this case The Winter Control ) has faults as well, I am sure of that.
Ive been working on this for over two yrs, and now I think the time is there to get it out there. I perform this move when they look at my hands, but that's just the way I prefer to do it. If that doesn't fit you, then don't do it that way. Work it into your ambitious card routine if you'd like, or just keep it in the back of your head in case you need it.

Thanks for your comment!
Cheers,
Aron
Joshua Barrett
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 13:46, aron wrote:
Barry,

I've always used the winter control in the way as I advertise it, so I suggest other people to do so to! With the winter control, ive always dared people to catch me... ( and if they did, they would have told me since they've told me if they catched me with other moves I do..
If it works for me, why not for anyone else?

Cheers,
Aron


its good that you eliminate any chance for wonder from the get go. this "watch my moves" performance will guarantee your audience won't care what you do! bravo!
Tim Sutton
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Tim Sutton AIMC, London UK
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Quote:
On 2008-07-21 10:46, aron wrote:
Hey guys,

What my motivation is? Ive shown this to a lot of people, and it has been published before in my notes ''Sleightly Cheatable''. A lot of people have been asking for it, since they liked it.


When I asked about motivation, I wasn't asking for your general motivation for offering this to the magic community, but specifically what you expect the audience to think at the moment you wave you hand over the deck to replace the ambitious card. Is it a magical gesture? Even on your final trailer there is an obvious tell, the card not sitting flush with the deck.

Tim
Vandy Grift
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You'd have to be stupid to spend six bucks for this move.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
BarryFernelius
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 13:46, aron wrote:
I've always used the winter control in the way as I advertise it, so I suggest other people to do so to! With the winter control, ive always dared people to catch me... ( and if they did, they would have told me since they've told me if they catched me with other moves I do..
If it works for me, why not for anyone else?


I'll leave you with a quotation from Socrates, the famous Greek philosopher. Often when looking at a mass of things for sale, Socrates would say, "How many things I have no need of!"

True words of wisdom...
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

-Leonard Bernstein
The Burnaby Kid
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There's a history of moves of this general sort that are really good (the idea being that the card in hand never apparently contacts the top of the deck before being inserted face-down into the middle). Marlo's got one, for instance, that slew me the first time I saw it.

That said, aron, there are two key things that would need to be addressed before I personally would buy this -- they are essentially two tells that concern me. The first is the quick darting action that occurs just as the card is turned face-down. The second is the way the left hand's palm comes over and essentially rubs the top of the deck before pushing in the outjogged card.

I've not tried playing with your method yet, so I don't know if these things can be safely eliminated while keeping the move deceptive. If they can be, though, then this might be something I'd consider worth purchasing.
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aron
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Tim,

A magical gesture, a wave of the hand or just pushing the card in the deck. Whatever way you want Smile

Barry,
Nice quote. What about all the forces, double lifts and passes that are around? You can only use one at the same time. Same as my control, its just another thing that you might use if you like it.

Cheers,
Aron
Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2008-07-22 05:40, aron wrote:
My only reason to publish my material is to give something back to the people that have given me so much the last decade.


Charging 6 bucks for one dodgy move is probably the kind of "giving back" that the magic community could do without.

Don't worry, I know you can't come out and say "I'm going to screw these chumps", but I can't imagine anyone is going to mistake your SELLING one sketchy move for some sort of magnanimous act.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
aron
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Vandy,

All I hope is that someone can ever use this ( or the idea behind it )in his or her act.


Cheers,
Aron
Vandy Grift
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All you hope is that you can make a buck or two. That's cool, but let's at least be honest about it. If all you cared about is that someone could use it, you'd give it away.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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