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FeiFongWong New user 75 Posts |
In card magic, there seems to be an almost endless discussion on the Ambitious Card; talk on the number of phases, the construction and the climax, to name but a few. In the realm of coin magic it seems that the One Coin Routine most closely resembles this card classic.
But the 1CR is rarely (never?) an example of clever, astonishing magic. The method almost always boils down to the use of successive false t*******s. Whether one uses a French Drop or a beautiful Retention Vanish, it often seems as though the spectators are never far from discovering the secret. It seems like routines such as this are dangerously close to impressive juggling with a coin, with the saving grace of a jumbo load! Because of this fairly obvious method, most 1CRs move at a swift pace, so that the spectator has no chance to attempt to work out the coin's true location. But isn't that aiming a bit low? I think that the routine can be made a whole lot more deceptive (and amazing) with clever routining and psychology. A great example of this is the Spider Vanish: it's seen in 9/10 One Coin Routines, and is usually the only time the routine moves beyond the simple bluff of the FT. Or look at Slydini's routine; the use of the lap gives the coin somewhere else to be, making the routine more magical than the stand-up versions. Can we emulate this when standing? Just a few thoughts. If any of you guys who do a One Coin Routine have any opinions on this, feel free to pitch in! P.S: It'd be so much easier if we could discuss methods here! |
gillesA4 Special user Brussels, Belgium 593 Posts |
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=3&22
Posted a few days ago.I too am dreaming of a beautiful one coin routine, executed with a mythical golden coin...
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. (A. Einstein)
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-21 15:12, FeiFongWong wrote: You can discuss methods; you just can't expose them. Also, when you get to fifty post you can discuss in more detail in the Secret Session forum.
Wes
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-21 15:12, FeiFongWong wrote: ACR also depends on successive false t*******s. Tried it with one card and no deck? Quote:
Because of this fairly obvious method, most 1CRs move at a swift pace, so that the spectator has no chance to attempt to work out the coin's true location. But isn't that aiming a bit low? I think that the routine can be made a whole lot more deceptive (and amazing) with clever routining and psychology. There are ways to convince that the coin is gone and hands empty. Speed isn't a must. Quote:
....look at Slydini's routine; .... gives the coin somewhere else to be, making the routine more magical than the stand-up versions. Can we emulate this when standing? If you're talking about showing that the coin in completely gone and then reproduce it then there are methods. Use a Hoo. Quote:
P.S: It'd be so much easier if we could discuss methods here! Too revealing in a public area. |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
I had an interesting conversation with a guy called Morgan Bondett over in Toronto a while ago, and he had a way of summing up most coin flurries -- it's a game of "Hide the coin".
If treated in that way, it boils down to what seems on the surface to be a non-magical experience. On the other hand, one thing that's present in a lot of good magic shows is texture, and a coin flurry -- even a "Hide the Coin" flurry -- can be a nice break from other kinds of magic. Look at the opening sequence in Paul Daniels' Chop Cup routine. The energy in that portion of the routine is very similar to the way many coin flurries are done ("Where's the ball?" vs. "Where's the coin?"). Afterwards, he slows it down and changes things, so that there's audience participation in the middle, and then an incongruous double-whammy climax. However, while one could argue that the opening stage doesn't contain "strong magic" in the same sense as the latter phases, it still serves its function of giving people straightforward magic right away, establishing the effect (creating expectations that he can play off later on), giving us insight into the performer's character. Whether or not we can do the same thing with a coin flurry is a question left to the ability of each individual performer...
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
I think the idea of trying to find a well rounded one coin routine is a little silly. The thinking behind it is flawed. If I take your deck of cards away and give you only a single card and ask you to build a routine what's your routine going to consist of?? Not much huh? It will look JUST like a one coin routine or a coin flurry. You can't compare what's possible with 52 cards with what's possible with a single coin!
A one coin routine should include more than the one coin. It should include a s*** or a dupe coin or two. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have some sort of routine with only one coin but you're obviously limited just like a card guy only holding one card... |
Pablo_Amira Special user Temuco, Chile 682 Posts |
I love to carry only one coin, and amaze .
Almost all effects in magic can be done with one coin, appearance , disappearance , mentalism, transformation, etc. Even fall up!!! jaja I think , the coin magic its very different to card magic, for me , a coin routine can be done with only one piece, and no more
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Asombro...lo más elevado a que puede llegar el hombre Johann Wolfgang Goethe |
kardillusions Special user Calgary, AB 541 Posts |
I find it's a lot more magical, easier, and just plain BETTER to stress on your spectators that it's your ONE COIN ROUTINE... and then,
use another coin. If you think about it, a simple spellbound routine SHOULD be considered a ONE COIN ROUTINE. You are simply CHANGING the one coin. Even still, "flurries" can have more magical moments than you guys are really saying... the coin can TOTALLY VANISH, JUMP, JUMP VISIBLY (muscle pass), CHANGE (spellbound), and even EXPAND. I think the neo-classic "ONE COIN ROUTINE" is a trick for magicians. Throwing something else into the mix makes it 100x better. Shoot Ogawa uses a spoon. Rune Klan uses a pen and a coin in a sort of Flurry that is just awesome (Impromptu Hit Man, Magic Magazine). etc. Just be creative and you can think of all sorts of things to do in a flurry that isn't "standard". Even if it means "cheating" and using 2 coins (or more). Scott. |
Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
I too carry one coin with me everywhere (Cdn silver dollar) and I don't go anywhere without it. I agree with you Pablo, card and coin magic are different.
With creativity and skill one can create beautiful things with a single coin, no doubt. I would LOVE to see a 'Holy Grail' one coin routine that extends beyond a Flurry, something truly magical! But there are limitations to a one coin routine compared to other tricks where there are multiple items involved (like a card deck). But limitations are not a bad thing by any means. It forces creativity and 'out-of-the-box' thinking... |
Pablo_Amira Special user Temuco, Chile 682 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-22 12:21, kardillusions wrote: spoon? like a magic wand? the other day I use a stick of candy like a magic wand jaja, the face of the kid don't have price.
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Asombro...lo más elevado a que puede llegar el hombre Johann Wolfgang Goethe |
kardillusions Special user Calgary, AB 541 Posts |
Pablo, you'd have to see Shoot do the spoon thing. He does it at his lectures. It's an amazing worker that I'm using everytime I'm out.
And you don't even have to carry a spoon on you. Scott. |
iceblade Loyal user 254 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-21 15:12, FeiFongWong wrote: The reason is that 99% of 1-coin routines have no reason or internal logic behind them. I think most magicians serioously lack imagination. So many things are possible. I seriously recommend the Books of Wonder for this kind of thinking |
Mb217 Inner circle 9519 Posts |
I recommend this guy...He's the 1% with some of the other possible things.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yfHaNhBJXe0
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
Haha
I half thought it would be him before I clicked on the link. I love that clip! He's definitely in the 1%. |
rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
More often than not only 1% of the 99 gets the air time or the chance to be viewed. The rest simply find its way to the tubes/net just because they have a cam. I still believe that there are many mgicians out there squeezing all they have in the imagination dept but just don't get the break or don't get close to the cliques in magic. They are out there believe me.Having said that, I do agree with iceblade to a certain degree. Logic and reason is important but performing in the real world...simply being entertaining does the job sometmes. Then again t really depends on the demographics.
Best from Manila, Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
Mb217 Inner circle 9519 Posts |
You make some good points Ran my man...I would say that there are hordes of people out there with some great imagination and differing ways of doing all this same stuff. You watch a guy like Bertini and you just have to rub your eyes in amazement, but then again I did that this morning looking at some of Mano's work as well...He's amazing and not a lot of people know of him.
More people are now coming to know how very good Eric Jones is by the large recognitions he's now receiving by makers & shakers. So yeah, I agree that we don't get to see everybody and those that get the lead out there get to set tone on how things are to be done. But certainly there are those that are not as well known that are as good as anyone out there in the way of thinking and doing. Mickey Silver certainly is one of those. Not exactly mentioned as a blue-blood member of the club but certainly everywhere as talented and creative, maybe even moreso. And hey, and don't forget guys like yourself, The Godfather and many others that show real and prolific genius in the art. To me, David Stone is brilliant. Not only very entertaining and creative but quite gifted in his abilities. You're right Rannie, there are many (that 1% might be very large indeed) and again I just watched some of Mano's stuff this morning and he's just as gifted as a lot of the best out there, maybe even moreso. His hands are not your average hands and he happily recognizes no boundaries, and thus sees no reason why anything can't be done...And then he magically shows it to you. Years ago I spoke of Eric Jones...Now I say watch out for Mano, he is everywhere as remarkable and creative with a very different and relaxing style. People will come to know him in a big way soon enough, and will not be able to gaurd their senses against his magic. Like Bertini (or maybe not like Bertini at all), his work is revolutionary. Wait to you see this sh*t, it's not your regular magic.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
IMO Bobos has some very good one coin routines.
Take a look at them, combine them and make a routine of your own. Look at other such routines by Roth, Slydini, Mickey Silver and others. Use one coin and another prop. Look at Platt's catapult work, Dingle's stuff, Williamsons, Wilsons, etc, etc. There's magic there. |
iceblade Loyal user 254 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-22 16:19, Mb217 wrote: Actually, this guy is the 1 in 10,000,000 rannie I do agree with you. However for me even a stupid reason for doing magic is better than no reason at all or people doing it just because they can. |
feher Inner circle Michigan 1421 Posts |
If you really think about it why do people like magic we all no its not real but we still find ourselfs amazed at it. Do we like it because of the structure of a routine ????? I don't think so. Is it because the hand is quicker then the eye no that's not it.Is it because what we do makes sense...nope
The biggest reason in my mind is because they are entertained. That can be with one coin multiple coins a shoe lace what ever. So if you are engaging with your spectators then it doesn't matter if its a hide a coin routine or a so called well structured routine. I think we sometime think to hard about it, if it works then it works who cares if its a cat and mouse routine. If we could really do magic then we wouldn't have to do all these darn sleights we love doing so much it would just happen at our finger tips with no hand movements or shakes....ect..lol that's my two cents for the night. Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-07-21 15:12, FeiFongWong wrote: Slydini published his routine honed over decades. Then Roth published his with some great new sleights and the Lapel Coin and Jumbo climax. ? I guess you could add in the earlier works on a slow motion coin vanish explored by folks including Leipzig and Ramsay - then Latta and ... those who have not read the classics... But what's this about comparing the climax of Slydini's routine with six coins to the Ambitious Card plot?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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