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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
Scott is right on!
And, yes, David Blaine IS a case in point. In fact, that IS the point. There are too many arrogant know-it-alls and unkempt louts out there who think that, because they can do a flawless (to their minds)pass, they somehow qualify as magicians/performers/whatever. They may get applause. But it's "pity applause". cheers, Peter Marucci showtimecol@aol.com |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Whilst I agree with Peter and Scott, I think that we might all agree that if you do great magic and have a great personality/ groomming this might be the best of both worlds.
I personaly would aim for this for if you fall short (who of us is perfect) then you stand more chance of landing feet first. phillip |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
To add to my above post I am sure we have all seen a performer who whilst is likable
would not fool a blind man in a dark room and suffers because of it. I have heared many audiences privately critisise the performer they had before because " he was funny and that but we booked a magician and he did not do much and what he did was to obvious" phillip |
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Platt Inner circle New York 2012 Posts |
Scott,
you're riding a slippery slope. I'm not talking about offensive, arrogant jerks. I'm talking about normal likable people who don't feel the need to play the part of "entertaining magic guy." As Eugene Burger states in the current Genie, far too many guys fail tremendously at that anyway. Particularly when it comes to humor. Look at guys like Sam Malone in worlds greatest magic. Can you honestly say people like that kind of persona? I was watching that with my girlfriend and she flat out said-"that's what I hate about magicians." Blaine simply says-"Watch this, watch, watch..." People watch and they're blown away. That's the why there's the mystique around the guy. The nation loves him. He's popularized magic because people can identify with him. He's a normal Joe, with a quiet mystique. The bottom line is this: Being a likable entertainer is extremely subjective. Some people love Ammar's style. I don't. Mindblowing magic is less so. Great magic is great magic. So, in my opinion, unless you've got something very unique to offer in the "entertainment" area it's best to focus on mindblowing magic. Again, barring the arrogant jerk, that's what people will be talking about the next day.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Sorry, but I still disagree with you.
And Sam Malone was Ted Danson's character on Cheers. I can only assume you're referring to Bill Malone, one of the most successful magicians on the planet! You (and your girlfriend) may well dislike him, but you're in the extreme minority.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
NOOORRRRMMM!
"What can I do for you Norm?" "Well Sammie, I am going to need something to kill time before my second beer."
Yakworld.
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
HI,
I think the difficulty between your opinions has more to do with your individual interpretations of personality and likability. It seems to me that Platt interprates Scott to mean a Crazy, Upbeat, comedy, loud over the top person. While Scott Just means that the audience must like you. Not that comedy is an absolute essential of being a likable entertaining personality. Guy Hollingworth comes across as pleasant and likable, but is not in my opinion particarly funny or even extrovert, also Alan Shaxon, Jeff Mcbride, Eugene Berger, Darwin Ortiz might be other examples. I think you would agree Scott that it is not essential to be an over the top Zing I am a magician type to be succesful. I believe that this is what Platt thinks that you are implying. phillip |
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Platt Inner circle New York 2012 Posts |
Scott, I just think there's a lot to consider here. I love seeing great magic. Most people I know love great magic. So why is it the magician carries such a negative, corny stigma?
I personally don't know why, so I'm asking you. It bothers me very much. Because it's something we all have working against us the minute we break out a deck of cards. David Copperfield, Sigfried & Roy, and the classic cartoon image of magician don't help. That's why I, and many others find Blaine so refreshing. P.B Jones understands that I'm not bashing having good character and a unique presentation. But to the majority of magicians that means throwing on the saccharine charm. Or putting us in the "magical mysterious world of wonder", or being painfully unfunny. These magicians are doing you and me no favors. Please read Eugene Burger's section in Genie. He hits the nail on the head. Mac King, Sankey, and others can pull it off. Most of us can't. If we can't, let's just be ourselves. If we're doing great, unique magic, I don't think people will fault us for being normal good guys.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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Burt Yaroch Inner circle Dallas,TX 1097 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-03-19 11:12, Platt wrote: Platt, where the heck are you coming from? You keep bashing the most successful magicians in the world. Even if you had a valid point do you honestly believe any of us could see it through your continued defamation? David Copperfield did more yesterday to promote the art of magic in the publics eye than amateurs like you and I will do in our lifetimes. And one more piece of friendly advice: before you start fights here, for fightings sake or otherwise, you may wish to look at who your squaring off against. Yak (Self Proclaimed President and acting Master at Arms of the Scott Guinn fan club.)
Yakworld.
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Randy Loyal user Rochester, NY 261 Posts |
Magicians always argue technique vs. entertainment. My stance is that if you don't fool them you are not a magician. If you don't entertain them you are not a magician. You have to have both.
The Buffalo Get-Together - A Close-Up Magic Convention
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
I'm not saying that you have to be crazy or zany. I'm saying they have to LIKE you. PB is correct in his interpretation of my statements.
I'm also not saying that you can be a good guy who's a hack and still be a good close up magician. Randy interpreted me correctlt there. What I AM saying is that you can be the best magician in the world technically, but if you are an A-Hole, or if you stink so bad that you make people sick, or if you are a superior, "look how smart I am and how stupid you are" kind of person, you WON'T be a good magician, close-up or otherwise. You may be a very knowledgeable "move-jockey," but to be a TRUE magician, you have to perform for someone other than yourself in a manner that not only fools them, but entertains them. This is especially true if your aspirations are to be a full-time pro. Those who are able to retain this status for any length of time understand that the tricks are the LEAST important part of the job, and that the successful show is all about the audience, not the magician!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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zephyr New user Sydney,Australia 4 Posts |
Whilst tempted to answer **ME**, I feel I should hold back, the best close up magicians are "magical entertainers", think about these two words a moment, Blaine is a magical entertainer. His magic entertains, it also shocks and seems very different to the table hoppers of this world.
Eugene entertains through Magic in its finest sense, each of us should look to seek that pinacle by striving to become Magical Entertainers - that is people who entertain each other, including other magicians, with Magic .
Zephyr Creations
The very Best in Quality M A G I C A L Entertaining zephyrmagic#@hotmail.com (remove the # to contact me) |
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Yes Zephyr, I tried to be as modest as possible too
Paul. |
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Steve Brooks Founder / Manager Northern California - United States 3780 Posts |
This is an interesting topic to discuss, leave it to Yak to once again do his thing!
:giggles: I pretty much agree with everyone for one reason or another, but do find some of the responses from Platt a bit strange. No matter, we all take a different view, and that's what the Cafe is all about, right? Please understand I am not attempting to change anyones viewpoint, but only responding with a few thoughts of my own. :) Platt said; "I'm reading all these suggestions about grooming, being a good entertainer, and being someone they'd pay to talk to. I mean those things are important, but certainly not the most important." I think that depends. If you are a huge celebrity (Rock star, Movie star, Athlete,etc.) wearing twenty nose rings, hair down to your feet, or sporting six thousand tatoo's is okay. You make twenty million a year, and if someone objects, oh well. But for us unknowns, presenting yourself in that manner at a nice restaurant, kid show party, or in a church would be a disaster, no matter how good your magical wonders were. Folks expect you to dress nice, be well groomed, and show common courtesy and respect. If you don't think so, try to apply for a job dressed as described above. A magic gig is no different. Platt said; "Sure there's a place for "the entertainer" but I don't like the idea of the magician being the guy who gets people smiling by pulling sponge bunnies out of their ears" I can understand that. Sponge bunnies do not fit in with everyones performing style, at least not my own. However, there are thousands of people (not just children) who enjoy such things, along with balloons and rabbits. What works for one performer, may not work for another. Regarding Bill Malone, Platt said; "Can you honestly say people like that kind of persona?" Yes. Many people love the high paced gambling style that Malone presents. Thus, he does very well. Can everyone present themselves that way? Obviously not. Platt said; "Blaine simply says-"Watch this, watch, watch..." There are many ways to address this. First, spectators tend to behave a little different when they are surrounded by cameras. It adds excitement, and many become more reserved because of it. Often the pressure of a spotlight can work in the magicians favor as it were. Remember, television itself is the biggest illusion of all. Further, once again, what may look and work good on television (the celebrity thing), may not be embraced as well in our section of the real world. Platt said; "unless you've got something very unique to offer in the "entertainment" area it's best to focus on mindblowing magic" I'm not sure I quite understand that idea. Mindblowing or not, magic IS entertainment. Unless of course you are like John Edward, and present your tricks as the real deal. :devilish: Platt said; "David Copperfield, Sigfried & Roy, and the classic cartoon image of magician don't help. That's why I, and many others find Blaine so refreshing" I can understand the younger crowd liking Blaine, along with Marlyn Manson, and the gang-banging rappers. But to say that Copperfield and the others do not help is in my opinion just plain ludicrous. These stars of magic truly present magic in a very classy fashion, and are worthy of our attentions. Besides, I've yet to see David Blaine do a live show in a large auditorium. Let me clarify that statement. To me, it's much easier to visualize Copperfield or say Lance Burton presenting a close-up effect on the street, than seeing Blaine performing on stage. Not that Blaine couldn't...I just don't see how, given his current style of presentation. Platt said; "Or putting us in the "magical mysterious world of wonder", or being painfully unfunny" I may be wrong here (I'm often wrong, just ask Mya) but doesn't magic by definition fall into the category of the mysterious and the unexplained? What were Ripley and P.T.Barnum thinking anyway? As far as being funny, that really is a personal thing. We all have a different sense of humor, that's for sure. Platt said; "If we can't, let's just be ourselves. If we're doing great, unique magic, I don't think people will fault us for being normal good guys" I agree 100% with that statement. Be yourself, always. You can't be Malone, Copperfield, Blaine, or anyone else, so why even try? I've said it before, but it warrants repeating: The effect is the only thing that matters, and presentation is everything!
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
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Jim Morton Veteran user 361 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-03-18 07:17, Peter Marucci wrote: I'm a little confused here, Peter. Are you implying that David Blaine is unpopular? If so, you are living in some alternative universe. He is raking in more dough than either you or I; dirty T-shirt and all. And I'll wager that if you opened a magic show the same night that Blaine was appearing, he would outdraw you (or me). No offense intended. Please explain your statement. Jim |
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Darren Kidby Loyal user UK 291 Posts |
Forgive me if this has already been said, but I also believe you have to care and want to get to know your audience ..
I try to hit them emotionally,, as if you know them intimately, if you know what I mean... Would you dance if I asked you to? |
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
If you'd read the previous postings you'd know if it had been said Magicman
Paul. |
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Platt Inner circle New York 2012 Posts |
First, thanks Mr. Brooks for your articulate, gentlemanly responses.
Folks, as seriously as I take magic, I humbly admit I'm only a hobbyist. And as a hobbyist, I can see how my idealized or personalized view of what a magician should be could anger some magicians who do it for a living. But please see them for what they're worth. Please break out of the magic circle train of thought and internalize them for just a minute. Please ask, why might I say that. Not, here's why you're wrong. I'm an advertising copywriter. And as an ad person, I've got a unique perspective on how not only I see magicians, but how Chicago's 23 to 40 yr olds do. Every day I perform something for somebody in the office, and I'm generally showered with opinions on what people think of this magician and that one. Are they not valid? By some of the responses I've received, I'd say many of you would think not. As an advertising professional, I welcome the guy on the street's view on my ads, or any ads for that matter. No matter how much I may disagree with him, I reflect on the comments and ask myself why he might feel that way. How many other might feel that way? I'm always amazed how out of sync the ad world is with the world we're creating ads for. Anyway, if I had a dime for every time someone told me they thought David Blaine was the most amazing, coolest magician in the world I'd have eighty cents or so. Almost enough to buy a Snapper. If I had a dime for everytime people bashed Sigfried & Roy I might have enough money for another Snapper. Sure they're doing Vegas nightly but so is Louie Anderson(Louie Anderson fans, please let it go.) I love this site. It's the different opinions, particularly the one's that go against common magician thought(who couldn't follow Vernon's lead and say David Roth is the world's finest coin manipulator), that make this site so refreshing and addicting. So please, let's keep our minds open and our defenses down. I mean no ill will. Cheers(had to steal it Peter), Platt
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
Jim Morton writes:
"David Blaine . . . is raking in more dough than either you or I; dirty T-shirt and all." So, probably, is Miss Cleo and assorted Colombian drug lords. Do you mean I should emulate them? "And I'll wager that if you opened a magic show the same night that Blaine was appearing, he would outdraw you (or me)." So would a roomful of strippers. So? There seems to be a rather skewed view of "good" and "success" at issue here. By that standard, Britney Spears is a far better singer than Beverley Sills, because she makes more money and draws bigger crowds! You're free to like Blaine, just as I am free to not like him. My statement stands: He simply isn't very good. cheers, Peter Marucci showtimecol@aol.com |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
HI,
I am not a Britany fan and I have Never heared of Beverley Sills. However, I believe that most people do not judge good or bad acts on artistic merit (I am not saying that it should be this way Just that it seems to be)If they like the act they say they where good if they did not Bad , Crap or other such words. However you look at it Mr Blaine must do some thing right in the publics opinion. it is very easy for us to say that he is not good. But as has been said earlier the audience has to like you and for whatever reason they appear to like Blaine here in the Uk a lot of theatres closed down through ignoring this fact. They have arty acts to uphold the artistic values of the theatres and unfortunately this did not put bums on seats. most of those that survived realised and started billing semi naked male dancers, bawdy comediens, rock musicals and such like this helped them to fund the more arty shows. If you asked most people under 30 who they thought was good or bad I dare say they would go for Britany over Beverly because that's the act that they like. How good she is at singing has little to do with it. phillip |
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