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gsidhe
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Oh my...
And Dynamike takes it to the next level!!


The next level down.

A side by side comparison?
Seriously?

Gwyd
sardini
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Yikes! Okay, Mike, let me point this out slowly. Mike, you posted photos of yourself on photobucket busking in a BLUE SUIT. Got it? Next, JoeJoe is wearing a BLUE STAR OUTFIT in his avatar photo here at the Café. See it? Again, Mike is busking in a BLUE SUIT. JoeJoe is wearing a BLUE STAR OUTFIT in his avatar. That means that BOTH OF YOU are wearing BLUE!!! It was a joke. See the hardy har har at the end? Apparantly, it went over your head. Mike, work on that chip, okay?
mslj
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.... and still the world slowly turns!

Guys this thread is perplexing. Perhaps, it is time to move on and leave behind the world of 'he said - he said'

Mike and Joe Joe, all the best to both of you. Just please promise me that you will never have a love child. That prospect is mildly disturbing.
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2009-04-03 17:04, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-03 16:00, tom hughes wrote:
Joejoe's "criticism" had very little to do with what you wear but rather in the way that you effectivelly destroyed that pitch for yourself by going in guns blazing rather than subtly establishing yourself as a presence in the locale... it's a very valid point and I'm sure you will live to regret not listening to it.


I'm glad to see others are comprehending my point. At some point, I was actually re-reading my posts trying to see where I failed to articulate my advice properly.

I'm beginning to think that it is Mike that has the issue with his suit - I myself don't have any issues with his attire. In fact ... I told him "that suit would look great under the spotlights of a large stage" in my very first post. It has nothing to do with the suit itself.



I will try to explain this to you again Mike, I'll simplify it and leave the suit out entirely by focusing on this one part: "don't even hat the audience, your goal is to break in a new pitch not make a lot of money".

If you had not passed the hat, those cops would not have asked you for your paperwork (paperwork that doesn't even exist). If you had gone there a couple of days, and those cops saw you there daily ... they would eventually get to the point where they wouldn't pay you no mind. THEN ... THEN ... you could have passed the hat and they would have never batted an eye lash at you.

-JoeJoe


I've cut the rest of this because I want to comment on this one point. I was working Thayer Street in Providence with the understanding that I would NOT make direct solicitations for money. As I understood that, no passing the hat. So I had a passive bucket on the ground in front of the table. This was the third or fourth time I'd performed in front of this pizza parlor (with permission of the manager) when a police Lt. came up and the conversation basically went;

What are you doing?

Performing magic.

What's with the bucket?

People give me tips.

I won't have it.

I uh, have a permit.

And it says, "at police descrition" doesn't it?

Yeah.

I won't have it.

So "passing the hat" isn't enough. No collection at all and he said he MIGHT have let me stay.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
MagiCol
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No hatting or not even a hat for free-will donations. No solicitations. It's a sad day when a city has such a tight restriction on buskers who are entertaining the public. Sometimes laws get made because somebody has pressed too much for donations, then when the person/problem has gone the authorities/public don't get to change back to "normal" and the law stays. There's room here for some of us to write a letter and question authorities' tough restrictions. But whether we will be able to sway a committee, um...Or go back on the street when the cop is off duty. Or come up with some excuse like : "I thought your warning was just for that occasion. Sorry, I'll move on."
The presentation makes the magic.
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2009-04-08 14:23, ed rhodes wrote:
So "passing the hat" isn't enough. No collection at all and he said he MIGHT have let me stay.

I've have wrestled with this problem trying to find a simple solution.

Take a guitar player for example, he opens his case. Takes out his instrument. And people place tips in it. If a cop would ask him the same question, "that's what I carry my guitar in". I would try to find a similar case for your magic, at which point you can answer the question differently.

I remember once in Myrtle Beach I had a conversation with a cop about people tipping ... I said "well I don't ask them to, but I'm not going to tell them not to either - would you?" ... he laughed it off and walked off.

In most cases ... it just boils down to how well you can talk to a cop. It sounds in your situation Ed, he wanted to move you along - I doubt you could have said anything to him to stay. At that point, you have no choice but to fight ... first person to talk to, City Clerk. Second person to talk to, City Attorney. Third person to talk to, an attorney.
Quote:
On 2009-04-08 19:48, MagiCol wrote:
There's room here for some of us to write a letter and question authorities' tough restrictions.

Every major industry spends millions (billions?) in lobbying Congress for favorable laws. In many cases, their lobby efforts are attacks on us - land developers and real estate tycoons, these people are the ones that have the most influence with local politicians.

Buskers ... we do virtually nothing to get better laws other than to complain about them. I'd like to see IBM and SAM start doing a little lobbying for us. I know when I went to the Myrtle Beach Council, I tried to get the local ring leader to come with me ... he wanted nothing to do with it, and advised me not to do it - he said if I wanted to stay out of trouble, I should fly under the radar and not cause trouble. Smile

-JoeJoe

Quote:
On 2009-04-08 21:08, JoeJoe wrote:
At that point, you have no choice but to fight ... first person to talk to, City Clerk. Second person to talk to, City Attorney. Third person to talk to, an attorney.

I want to add that talking to those people can do a lot more good than you would think ... I know I got in a fight with a cop about a junk car in my yard not being covered. It wasn't my car, and I wasn't going to just have it towed (even though the owner wouldn't have cared). All I wanted her to do was what the ordinance said - put a red sticker on it. She didn't want to do that, said she didn't have to.

Well I am stubborn and went about going to the City Clerk ... when she wouldn't help, I wanted to talk to the City Attorney. What a meeting that was! Talk about having fun, I actually stood up and moved behind his desk and put my finger on the ordinance he was reading showing him exactly where it said she was supposed to put a red sticker on it - I pretty much took control of his office, he didn't like that. lol

Well, to make the long story short ... on court day they dismissed the case against me, but I told them I still wanted to see the judge because I had a complaint about the way my case was handled ... they nearly dragged me out of the court house where I got in another fight with the Sargent. Well the girl cop was there, and took him aside and said "you don't understand, he's already been to the Clerk and talked to the City Attorney".

When they get a call from the City Attorney, they get scared of you! Don't think they don't.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2009-04-08 21:08, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-08 14:23, ed rhodes wrote:
So "passing the hat" isn't enough. No collection at all and he said he MIGHT have let me stay.


I've have wrestled with this problem trying to find a simple solution.

Take a guitar player for example, he opens his case. Takes out his instrument. And people place tips in it. If a cop would ask him the same question, "that's what I carry my guitar in". I would try to find a similar case for your magic, at which point you can answer the question differently.

I remember once in Myrtle Beach I had a conversation with a cop about people tipping ... I said "well I don't ask them to, but I'm not going to tell them not to either - would you?" ... he laughed it off and walked off.

In most cases ... it just boils down to how well you can talk to a cop. It sounds in your situation Ed, he wanted to move you along - I doubt you could have said anything to him to stay. At that point, you have no choice but to fight ... first person to talk to, City Clerk. Second person to talk to, City Attorney. Third person to talk to, an attorney.

-JoeJoe


The City Council, which gave me my license, told me that there could be no "direct solicitation" but that a passive bucket would be OK. However, the City Council wasn't there, a police lt. with an attitude was, so I left. I'm thinking of going back if the weather is warmer this weekend
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
JoeJoe
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Quote:
On 2009-04-09 17:41, ed rhodes wrote:
The City Council, which gave me my license, told me that there could be no "direct solicitation" but that a passive bucket would be OK. However, the City Council wasn't there, a police lt. with an attitude was, so I left. I'm thinking of going back if the weather is warmer this weekend


Do you remember who on the Council told you that? You need to go back to them, and tell them what the cop said ... and it would be helpful if you had his name.

I would approach it in a "you had told me that it would be ok if I had a tip jar out - but officer so-and-so made me go home because I had one out and now I'm confused and would like some clarification". What you want them to do is to contact the cop shop who will in turn contact the officer who will never hassle you again after that.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2009-04-09 20:05, JoeJoe wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-04-09 17:41, ed rhodes wrote:
The City Council, which gave me my license, told me that there could be no "direct solicitation" but that a passive bucket would be OK. However, the City Council wasn't there, a police lt. with an attitude was, so I left. I'm thinking of going back if the weather is warmer this weekend


Do you remember who on the Council told you that? You need to go back to them, and tell them what the cop said ... and it would be helpful if you had his name.

I would approach it in a "you had told me that it would be ok if I had a tip jar out - but officer so-and-so made me go home because I had one out and now I'm confused and would like some clarification". What you want them to do is to contact the cop shop who will in turn contact the officer who will never hassle you again after that.

-JoeJoe


No. I don't have either name. However, this is Rhode Island, the answer will be; "Well, we have to leave it to the descretion of the local police. If he told you you have to move on, that's the way it is." Trust me, I've been here long enough to know how the ineptitutude (sp) works!
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
JoeJoe
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Gotta learn how to talk to people Ed ... listen to the way I phrased it - "you said I could have a tip jar out" ... who's in charge here, you the council? Or him the cop ... you gotta pit them against each other! Every government has internal power struggles, find them an exploit them.

Your always just the innocent bystander caught in the crossfire - your just confused and don't know what to do.



Do you know where this ordinance actually is? I went to municode and looked up Providence RI and can't find any ordinance on street performing at all. Section 16-20 however prohibits "aggressive solicitation" ... but I hardly call having a tip jar at your feet aggressive and don't see you in violation.

http://www.municode.com/resources/gatewa......8&sid=39

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
Dynamike
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Quote:
On 2009-04-10 05:24, ed rhodes wrote:
No. I don't have either name. However, this is Rhode Island, the answer will be; "Well, we have to leave it to the descretion of the local police. If he told you you have to move on, that's the way it is." Trust me, I've been here long enough to know how the ineptitutude (sp) works!

:applause: Smile Smile
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2009-04-10 13:26, JoeJoe wrote:
Gotta learn how to talk to people Ed ... listen to the way I phrased it - "you said I could have a tip jar out" ... who's in charge here, you the council? Or him the cop ... you gotta pit them against each other! Every government has internal power struggles, find them an exploit them.

Your always just the innocent bystander caught in the crossfire - your just confused and don't know what to do.



Do you know where this ordinance actually is? I went to municode and looked up Providence RI and can't find any ordinance on street performing at all. Section 16-20 however prohibits "aggressive solicitation" ... but I hardly call having a tip jar at your feet aggressive and don't see you in violation.

http://www.municode.com/resources/gatewa......8&sid=39

-JoeJoe


The City Council, when they gave me the permit, said that street police can override it. I just kinda hoped it would be for a reason; blocking the street, annoying the pedestrians, something of that nature rather than; "I've got you here, I've got the face painter down the street and the guitar player up the block. This place is becoming a circus and I won't have it!" That's (almost) a direct quote.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
JoeJoe
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I would think if they gave you a permit there would be an ordinance on it, does the permit tell you what section of code it falls under? What kind of permit is it exactly? If I could find the ordinance I might be of more help.

It's all in how you talk to people ... ever see that movie "Catch Me If You Can"? Frank Abagnale would figure out who he has to tell what in order to get what he wants. You got to run a hustle on these people, cops and politicians can smell fear - don't let them see you sweat. Your the voting taxing paying citizen, you are the boss.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Learn JoeJoe's secrets at Magic Joint dot com
ed rhodes
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Pm-ing you.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Nick W
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Dynamike,

joe joe said to change the costume. heres another school of thought:
I feel your pimp suit is great. it defines who you are with just a glance. americans seem facniated with pimps and women and what not. so if your playing the role of the positive pimp, with nothing negative, and making people laugh, you have a unique roll. people appriciate it. if your audience is mostly black people, then the black man in a pimp suit will be more fun then the black man in the suit and tie. they can relate to that role better. know what I'm sayn'? I'm just suggesting to look at the show from their perspective. pimps have money, so a good clean fun misers dream would be quite fitting, don't you think? bill changes are good also. I don't want to see a pimp magician performing with silks. I want to see him manipulating money. (personal opinion) but look at practicality, if its hot where you play, then re think the suit idea....unless you have iced out mini fans in your suit....
Paddy
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Good idea Nick. but the silks could be used too. Pimps play with their women's panties.
Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis

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gaddy
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This thread has gotten suddenly very weird...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
MagiCol
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Your right, Gaddy. Now we - or somebody - could be close to getting in to silk panties for an act!! Now, where were we...?
The presentation makes the magic.
Dynamike
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Gaddy, MagiCol, I know what it is all about. It deals with the certain members who are jealous to see me take it to a higher level than they can handle within a short amount of time. They don't know I have been performing magic for 33 years. I was already use to handling being nervous, the patter, being outside, etc. I know you two are not either of the jealous ones, that is why you two want to support and help me if I got a question. The jealous ones know who they are. Gaddy and MagiCol, to be more specific, watch the jealous ones come back and conflict with this post of mine. They will show who they are themselves, because of their lack of self-control. It will be no need for me to tell you their names.
Chance
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Mike, I would just like to say something:

I've been one of the guys here trying to keep things real in this thread; whether or not this makes me a "supporter" in your eyes is up to you.

But let me just say, I also do NOT like your clothing choices. But hey, that's just me. I don't ask you to dress like me either, so no sweat off either of our backs as far as I can tell.

But dude, you are NOT taking ANYTHING to a higher level. Not here at the MC, and not out on the street. Deal with it. (And before you get bent out of shape, remember, I'm one of the good guys here!)

And this is coming from someone that's performed magic & escapes since before you were born, and I've busked 23 countries & 35 US states for many thousands of shows. So jealousy has, like, zero part in what I'm saying. But I just can't sit back and let you ramble on and on about how great your style is and how you are somehow the best of the best and we all aspire to 'be like Mike.' It ain't like that ay all my friend. Not at all.

I wish you well this summer, I really do! And definitely get out there and DO IT YOUR WAY. Your way, not mine or anyone elses'. But don't be too offended if I don't break out my lounge singing suits, either, OK?

Last but not least, I'm perfectly able to speak for myself, and everyone here knows it. I will gladly smack down any one else here who tries to include me on any type of "get Mike" bandwagon. I got nothing against Mike, so DO NOT go and put words in my mouth, or chime in and tell me how 'right on' I am with my observations, ect. Go make your own if you have any and stand on your own merits.
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