Hey Donald,

That would be fine - if the information syncs, which it doesn't.

A hallmark of CRM is it syncing (per above).

Salesforce does this, but not for Mac users, at the lowest price. The lowest price is still annually hundreds of dollars, which is I think excessive.

PC users have dozens of options, and it seems Mac users might have only the one that doubled my records without my encouragement.

Scott, I just assume that it's a tad complicated to do well - but I don't want to be the one to discourage you!

Carducci - when are you coming back to share with us?

Cheers,
AtPG

Posted: Jun 15, 2009 7:19pm
One more thing!

James, just so you don't think I'm being persnickity or unfair about Daylite, here's a complaint most Mac users I think will understand and agree with:

I've spent many hours getting all of my address books into meaningful groups. (librarians/friends&family/clients/etc.), and Daylite didn't import them.

True, that. They gave me a bizarre work-around which took hours to implement.

Bad start, I thought.

Cheers,
AtPG

I'm afraid I can't help since I have never imported from Address Book. Whenever I import a new list of contacts I always import it as a CSV text file and pop it straight into whatever groups I like.

I can appreciate your frustration if you weren't able to import everything from Address Book. I just took a look and it seems Address Book will not let you export contacts as a CSV file which is a deficiency of Address Book since CSV is the standard way to import a group of contacts into any CRM program.

Sorry I can't offer any help. Did you try asking the question on the DayLite user forum?

James

Hey James,

I did figure out a work-around....but that raises another point.

I want to use my Address Book, and Daylight is designed to have you no longer use that, nor iCal. I think that's a major failing, and something which PC-based CRM programs don't demand of them.

(I apologize for this terribly wonky thread - but it's been a source of considerable frustration.)

Here's a link to a MacWorld review of Contactizer, and several other quasi-CRM programs:
http://www.macworld.com/article/133792/2......pro.html

In a nutshell, there are useless things (I don't need group calendars), and ridiculous developers ($70 per MONTH for cloudware? Are you crazy?).

Sigh.....you know, suddenly a center deal doesn't look that intimidating anymore.

: )

Encourage me with data I haven't found. Please.

AtPG

No, that is not correct. DayLite syncs up perfectly with iCal and Address Book.

In DayLite, go to Preferences - Synchronization and you can change the settings for both iCal and Address Book. Always do a backup before you change these settings in case you sync the wrong way by accident!

DayLite has a lot of training videos available - http://marketcircle.com/help/movies.html

It might seem a little overwhelming at first because it is a powerful piece of software. Every business is different, so it needs some customization out of the box to make it work how you want it to.

Best,
James

Sorry it took me so long to follow up.

I've been using a cross-platform, open source CRM package for several years now. It is a very powerful package and the price can't be beat (free).

Like everything, it has it's pros and cons and, if money isn't your only measure of cost, it's not quite free. I skip over most of the feature/benefit discussion, that information is available over http://www.sugarcrm.com/crm/
instead I'll share my real world experience with the product and how it relates to our business.

I host the application on my webserver so that I can access it anywhere, but your mac has all the capabilities of a webserver so you can also install it locally, if you prefer.

Although they do their best to make it easy to install, the process can be problematic. If this process is too daunting, you can always opt to subscribe to a service, rather than manage it yourself.

One of the advantages of a purpose-built entertainer CRM packages is that it's built around concepts that are specific to our industry, and it doesn't have irrelevant features. You can get the same results with a product like Sugar, it just takes time. You can hide/disable the features you don't need and you can customize the features you do use to be relevant to the way you work and our industry. I think I tinkered with Sugar for about a month before I had a solid, working platform.

Once you get past the initial set up and you start using it, you'll find it's a very powerful tool. You can easily create and track email campaigns, the reports are phenomenal, and the user interface is well thought out.

For the most part, it integrates well with other systems. I find that the I'm usually more limited by what I can export than what I can import. For example, I regularly load lead data from gigmasters, but their export is missing several key fields so there is a manual step to 'fill in the blanks'

Once you've created an import definition, it can be reused and modified as required.

The biggest advantage, IMO, of SugarCRM (and open source software in general) is that you aren't reliant on the vendor to add features. The more demand there is for a given feature, the more likely it is that someone will add it. It's been awhile since I searched, but there is a strong demand for ical/address book sync and iphone integration and I know there are active projects to do just that.

To address specific issues: the default export format for Apple's Address Book software is *.vcf files. You can import these into SugarCRM. I have cobbled together a solution to keep all my devices in sync but I'm sure something better is available now. There are a few iphone options for SugarCRM, and currently the ones I am aware of are free.

Because your contact list is at the center of your CRM data, all that data must reside in the application, and maintaining that is two places is a chore. It is possible to manage your contacts in SugarCRM, and sync them back with address book.

In conclusion, I've used this product for several years and it works for me. I like that I can use a serious CRM package without the serious price tag. I'm fairly tech-savvy so the administration isn't that difficult for me. I also started using this before there were many alternatives for the mac and I haven't reviewed any of them.

Hey James - from another James at Marketcircle (Daylite):
From me: "On 14-Nov-08
I was with your logic until this last step!
So.....after this is all done.....do I use iCal and Address Book, because they're now properly syncing with Daylite, or am I never using those two again???"

His response:
"Right, Address Book and iCal will just be used to verify information syncing with Sync Services.
Thanks!
James
Marketcircle Sales"

One of many problems. The other emails outline the work-around I did to preserve my groups: it's wayyyyyy tooooo much work to do once, much less again.

Senor Carducci, are you indeed a Mac & iPhone user? If so, we'd love to see I'm sure some screen shots. You might just have a new revenue stream.

Cheers,
AtPG

Well, he's right. You can continue to use iCal and Address Book if you really want to and it should sync with DayLite. But once you have DayLite up and running you would probably want to do everything within DayLite.

By the way, all this syncing happens automatically behind the scenes. Once it is set up you don't have to do anything. If you add a contact and appointment in DayLite it just shows up in iCal and on your iPhone.

James

I am, indeed, a mac and iphone user

There is a big demand for an iphone interface for SugarCRM and there are current three viable options that I'm aware of.

1. I believe there is an iphone interface on their hosted edition. This may or may not be available on the open source edition.

2. Pramati has developed an iphone interface that they are giving away right now, a demo is here http://www.vimeo.com/2046206 (this might eventually become a commercial piece of sofware)

3. There is an active project for a mini-web version of the application for devices: http://www.sugarforge.org/projects/verythinclient/

There are a bunch of plugins for Sugar, is there anything else that you'd like to see in your CRM?

I looked at SugarCRM a couple of years ago and found it a bit too tricky to customize. It might have got simpler since then.

My main issue with a web-based CRM is what do you do when you do when your hotel room doesn't have internet access? Or do you run it locally?

Do your web contact forms drop straight into SugarCRM? That's one thing I wish I could get DayLite to do...

Best,
James

It definitely takes time to customize, I agree. The depth of the customization is very impressive though.

You can run SugarCRM locally, but you lose out on some of the features (like web lead capture, email campaign tracking etc)

The iphone app I mentioned above allows offline access, but I haven't played with it yet.

What we all want is seamless integration of data, from the forms on our web site dropping in as James points out, to each gig's money being dropped into a tax form. Honestly, in 2009, I don't understand why this hasn't all been figured out: a complete package. From getting the inquiry, to sending out the contract, to getting the deposit, to printing out a map, to noting the mileage for taxes, to paying one's taxes.....why can't there be something like that for all performers? I'm betting it's far more likely to exist in the PC world, of course.

James, because cloudware syncs, your latest information will all be in your Apple Address Book. Right Carducci?

Thanks for keeping this going - I sure wish other Apple super-computer literates would jump in!

: )

AtPG

SugarCRM looks pretty cool. I'm going to play with that. How does that compare to something like Highrise (from 37Signals):

http://www.highrisehq.com/

While until recently I've always liked having my info on my computer, I am becoming more and more open to the idea of the cloud computing and just having it 'out there' where I can get it on my iPhone or MacBook Pro at any time.

FWIW, it's designed for larger teams, but Highrise would be about $30/month for the solo business owners like us. Is it worth it? I'm on the fence right now. Until I make the jump, I'm sticking with iCal.

Scott

P.S.
Tried the trial of Daylite and don't like it. I'm sure it's capable. I just don't like the 'feel' of the program. Is that weird or is it just me?

I'm the same way. Now that an internet connection is becoming more ubiquitous, and the technology is beginning to mature, Software as a Service and web-based alternatives are becoming a serious alternative to many desktop apps.

Highrise looks pretty decent, and it seems like it doesn't have the unnecessary (to us) features that SugarCRM has (bug tracking, support cases, etc) In Sugar, you can turn all those features off, but it's part of that time-consuming configuration period.

A $30/mo price tag isn't that bad (especially compared to salesforce), but I'd like to know how well it integrates with everything else I use (iPhone, Gmail, Google Calendar, web lead capture etc)

vtiger (http://www.vtiger.com/) is another web-based option.

Posted: Jun 17, 2009 7:59pm
Also, if I can help you set it up let me know. I've spent a great deal of time working with it and I'd be happy to save you some time.

Another thing I was considering was making an empty copy of my configuration available to get people up and running faster.

Highrise problems:

1) doesn't sync

2) costs 50% more per month than my DSL

3) doesn't seem to link with day-to-day email

3) I'm increasingly annoyed (shock, I know) that FAQs aren't just that: they are obvious, stupid questions. Of course we want to know not just what the thing does, but how it integrates with our computer's data.

I'm remembering (wincing) what it took to get my groups from Address Book into Daylite. Did I mention the pain? The suffering? Sigh......Yeah, I did a back-up, but was adding many, many contacts (it was a busy time of the year, and I needed the thing {whoops} to help keep everything straight). So once it was corrupted, I didn't want to further sort out what contacts I'd now added in the two weeks of getting Daylite to work.

Next!

Posted: Jun 17, 2009 8:03pm
Sorry Carducci - was writing what I did as you posted.

Carducci,

If it is not too much trouble that is a very generous offer and I'd love to have a copy to play around with. I just installed an empty SugarCRM to look at and it all looked very busy with stuff I don't need. I'm sure a lot of things can be turned off, but it would be a huge time saver if your copy has already done that. And I guess you have setup the necessary custom fields, etc.

Best,
James

Sure. Give me a few days and I'll post the link.

Awesome. Thank you!

This is exciting guys. Your generosity and attitude almost makes up for the 60 hours of research I spent this week and last November.

: )

A chart for what's offered would be useful, eh? Cost/cost per month; syncs or no; integrates or replaces AB & iCal; syncs with iPhone; displays on iPhone; customization charges by company for our field; genuine CRM or really just notes associated with contacts; support by company...anything else?

Some friends of mine are checking out Contactizer, and will report here shortly, I hope.

Cheers,
AtPG

Please don't be you answered my questions!

Posted: Jun 18, 2009 4:52pm
One other point of confusion:

VTiger is free, and SugarCRM can be free.

Both are open source, which means anybody can see the inner-workings of the application, and make enhancements (and typically share the enhancements with the community) Examples of open source software are the web browser Firefox and BSD linux (the core of MacOS X) Google, for example, is built on entirely open source software (as is much of the internet)

VTiger and SugarCRM have slightly different models; SugarCRM calls itself 'commercial open source' and they run a for-profit business. SugarCRM is available in four 'editions:'
Sugar Express, Sugar Professional, Sugar Enterprise and Sugar Community Edition.

Sugar Community Edition is free, and you host and manage it by yourself. The other editions are usually hosted (for a recurring fee) and include more bells and whistles. Most of these additional features appeal to larger outfits so you're not missing much. There are a number of free alternatives to most of the advanced features and the community edition is very full featured as it is (which is why you don't see a point by point comparison between the free edition and the paid edition)

If you want to look at the feature matrix, Sugar Community Edition is more or less identical to SugarExpress (although Community Edition has one or two more features)

To find the free version of SugarCRM, look under the "Open Source Menu" on the Sugar Website.

One other point of confusion:

VTiger is free, and SugarCRM can be free.

Both are open source, which means anybody can see the inner-workings of the application, and make enhancements (and typically share the enhancements with the community) Examples of open source software are the web browser Firefox and BSD linux (the core of MacOS X) Google, for example, is built on entirely open source software (as is much of the internet)

VTiger and SugarCRM have slightly different models; SugarCRM calls itself 'commercial open source' and they run a for-profit business. SugarCRM is available in four 'editions:'
Sugar Express, Sugar Professional, Sugar Enterprise and Sugar Community Edition.

Sugar Community Edition is free, and you host and manage it by yourself. The other editions are usually hosted (for a recurring fee) and include more bells and whistles. Most of these additional features appeal to larger outfits so you're not missing much. There are a number of free alternatives to most of the advanced features and the community edition is very full featured as it is (which is why you don't see a point by point comparison between the free edition and the paid edition)

If you want to look at the feature matrix, Sugar Community Edition is more or less identical to SugarExpress (although Community Edition has one or two more features)

To find the free version of SugarCRM, look under the "Open Source Menu" on the Sugar Website.