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The Old Man
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As you can see I am a fairly new poster. I also am not a professional magician. I am a hobbyist who's been involved in magic on and off for over 45 years. Today I received a PM from Steve with a link to this trick. I have real problems with it.

I don't think the way this trick plays with the volunteer is right. We have all seen the failed spike under three Styrofoam cup trick youtube video. This shows a woman volunteer having her hand impaled on the spike. During the trick she was showing a high level of anxiety--some of which we see from the volunteers in the Lethal video. Why put this kind of pressure on someone? Why should they trust that the magician--an unknown person to them--won't injure them? Because they know the trick's in the protector and they can't get hurt? I don't think so.

I heard on Itrick's podcast Angel's producer (?) talking about how Copperfield was a bit gay compared to his man. I guess we're suppose to be moving into a time of macho magic ala Angel, Blaine etc--on the street, grunge, and in your face. Perhaps this is a separate topic but I think it's all part of the same mindset. Yeah, we don't need the elegance of Tommy Wonder, the humor and style of an old man like Jay Marshall, or even the great story telling of Ricky Jay. Thank God Slydini, Cardini and Vernon are dead--how would they make it today?
Harv
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No knives in my show...at any time for any one. Especially $1195 knives (or was that supposed to be $11.95?)
p:m
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The Old Man,

For starters, your a hobbyist, so a demo for a 1195.00$ knife through card effect will immediately not look appealing. Why? because you will most likely never get your moneys worth.

Now for the working professional? Yes. Appealing. The price is not an issue. A few shows and that sucker is paid back. Harv, clearly does not understand the value of a great piece of magic. 1195.00 is a steal for what is included with Mr Motta's package.

I myself purchased LETHAL some months ago. I have been using it in EVERY show I have been booked on for the last 4 months straight. Now being an entertainer for a living and having no other means of income, I like to get feedback after my performances. Every spectator, friend, VP, You name it who has attended one of my shows, the FIRST piece of feedback I have received since purchasing lethal is how amazing "that knife trick" was. All the time. not a word of a lie.

The routine Bobby has constructed, (as you will see if you own the DVD) has many different parts to it. Old Man, your just looking at this as a “throw the knife at the volunteer” knife throw. Pure suspense. No talking. Just shut up and stand still while I throw this knife at you. This is not the case whatsoever.

The amount of room for comedy in this routine is endless. My audiences, as I'm sure everyone else's who own this effect have nothing but fun with it. If you knew the method behind the madness, you would know there is no danger whatsoever. After all, I do not think anyone marketing an effect would actually market something that could very well potentially kill the spectator on the spot..... that being said... you cant speak for a spectaors behalf on how safe they feel on stage.

Im sure if you presented the effect by first throwing a knife near the spectator with no board or explanation as to why you just hurled a knife towards his head… only to say “Wait lets use a target board around your neck instead!” THEN I would say its fair to assume the spectator is going to want no part with it.

Keep in mind old man, were talking about LETHAL here not the spike under the cup using a spectators hand. Which raises my question as to why your talking about criss angel david Copperfield and itricks podcasts…..

Anyway,

I guess since you are new here (as you stated) you have not yet visited the already existing thread for LETHAL with its many glowing reviews. Might wanna give that a look. There is a reason why its 1195 and continues to sell…..
p:m
<BR>www.petermckinnon.com
LBP MAGIC
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Even for working pros I cant see that price. You are probably right Jak it does look nice and I am sure all who see it like it, but I find that price to be nothing short of outrageous. My entire close up act cost me a fraction of that cost and people love those effects as well. And it didn't take me a "few" shows to pay it off it took me about 15 mins of my first show to pay it off.

Just some thoughts.

LBP
The Old Man
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Jak, I appreciate all that you said, and yes I allowed an Angel rant in there. For me again it's not the price, since as you said I will never buy it. I guess it has to do with (as another thread mentions) the care and feeding of volunteers. Since you have a lot of experience with the trick do you not find that some volunteers wish they weren't up there? That they might get hurt? Again they do not know that the trick is 100% fool proof.
Review King
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Quote:
On 2008-08-06 13:16, The Old Man wrote:
As you can see I am a fairly new poster. I also am not a professional magician. I am a hobbyist who's been involved in magic on and off for over 45 years. Today I received a PM from Steve with a link to this trick. I have real problems with it.

I don't think the way this trick plays with the volunteer is right. We have all seen the failed spike under three Styrofoam cup trick youtube video. This shows a woman volunteer having her hand impaled on the spike. During the trick she was showing a high level of anxiety--some of which we see from the volunteers in the Lethal video. Why put this kind of pressure on someone? Why should they trust that the magician--an unknown person to them--won't injure them? Because they know the trick's in the protector and they can't get hurt? I don't think so.

I heard on Itrick's podcast Angel's producer (?) talking about how Copperfield was a bit gay compared to his man. I guess we're suppose to be moving into a time of macho magic ala Angel, Blaine etc--on the street, grunge, and in your face. Perhaps this is a separate topic but I think it's all part of the same mindset. Yeah, we don't need the elegance of Tommy Wonder, the humor and style of an old man like Jay Marshall, or even the great story telling of Ricky Jay. Thank God Slydini, Cardini and Vernon are dead--how would they make it today?


Did my grandfather come back from the dead to write this post? Substitute David Blaine for Elvis Presley and it's the same rant he'd go on about the decline of music when rock and roll arrived.

Oh...and Slydini would be as relevant today as he was in his time. His magic and personality were timeless and ageless.


"Ol' Man River, that Ol' Man River
He must know somepin', but he don't say nothin'
He just keeps rollin', he keeps on rollin' along....."
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
p:m
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Old Man,

Never once have I had a spectator that has been either to afraid of continuing to participate with me on stage, Nor have I had a spectator that was uneasy about the happenings on stage. People just have fun with it. If I am relaxed and having fun with the audience, my "Easy going" vibe is pretty much what makes them trust me... and in turn, carries over to the way they feel as an audience. Relaxed.

LBP,

that's good your show cost you so little. Probably in your performance style. If you wanted to add a knife throw, you could probably find another version, different style, and smaller for a much smaller cost. You will indeed be missing out on quality, length, open opportunities and the result for a very powerful stage act.

don't look at it as just spending 1195.00$ on a magic trick. Your investing in your career as a magician. And as a result you or anyone else will get tones of mileage out of this one.

p:m
p:m
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Michel Huot
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Hello all,
here are my 2 cents,
first, I rarely say that but the video is amazing! The potentials are endless as Jak says. I imagine how this is done and if I'm right, there is no danger at all.
Regarding the spectator, everything is a question of credibility. Some performers will have a very hard time finding a spectator that will feel safe going on stage even if it's just a normal card trick (example, if you do the bra trick, try to find someone to help you). If on the opposite side you showed them what you can do and that you treat your spectator with respect, they know that you won't do something stupid that could put their lives in danger. Do that as your opening trick would probably be a mistake, but this piece is a closer so it would be stupid anyway doing it as an opener.
Bravo Mr. Motta
Tricks aren't important...people are!!!
LBP MAGIC
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Quote:
On 2008-08-07 08:17, Jak wrote:
LBP,

that's good your show cost you so little. Probably in your performance style. If you wanted to add a knife throw, you could probably find another version, different style, and smaller for a much smaller cost. You will indeed be missing out on quality, length, open opportunities and the result for a very powerful stage act.

don't look at it as just spending 1195.00$ on a magic trick. Your investing in your career as a magician. And as a result you or anyone else will get tones of mileage out of this one.

p:m


Its not about cost really. If something came a long that cost 12,000 dollars and I felt it would improve what I do and that it is a good sound business investment then I would pruchase that item. This however is overpriced for what I think I would get out of it. I am glad you enjoy it and that it works for you. I guess I just didn't understand your first post where you made it sound like any Real Professional performer should have this and that the price wouldnt be an issue for a real performer. When reading Brooks PM it made it sound like the grail had been found. Then I see a guy throwing a knife at someone. Not really the grail if you ask me.

Side rant. I see a lot of performers that think spending money on the next biggest and best is the only way to make it. My point is for 15 bucks you can have an act that will entertain for hours, or for 15 bucks you could have the worst show in the world. Same goes for the 20,000 dollar acts. It really comes down to the performer not the tricks.
p:m
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"Performer not the tricks." Agreed. Whole Heartedly.


Perhaps it is over priced for what YOU would get out of it. But for regular working pros, doing shows 3-5 times a week at minimum, working corporate events, trade shows, cruise ships, what have you... It really comes down to each performers individual needs and performance style. Just because it is over priced for you doesn't mean it is an over priced product.

The reason Mr Brooks made it sound like "the grail" as you put it (which to me, he was only sharing his excitement) is because for its breed of knife throw / stabbing routines, it IS the grail. Just like anything else. Woud you rather have sasco coins or would you rather have custom lassen coins.... Some would consider lassen coins "The Grail". that's all.

And it is one of the better parlour / stage routines that has become available to the public in some time that offers such a large portion of magic and routine opportunity for one effect. So it deserves every bit of excitement and Hype Steve Brooks gave it in his PM. He sent it out for a reason.
p:m
<BR>www.petermckinnon.com
Gilgamesh_The_Librarian
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I think this looks entertaining and I don't think it has the same kind of threat as a spike under a cup.

Only slight reservation I have is that, as a movie fan not a magician, I pretty much got what was happening with this effect. But I guess I can't tell how many people would suss that piece and they'd still have to figure out how you got their card.

All in all I can see this as being a good effect for a pro and it doesn't feel any more threatening than say a guillotine effect.
LBP MAGIC
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Quote:
On 2008-08-07 11:35, Jak wrote:
"Performer not the tricks." Agreed. Whole Heartedly.


Perhaps it is over priced for what YOU would get out of it. But for regular working pros, doing shows 3-5 times a week at minimum, working corporate events, trade shows, cruise ships, what have you... It really comes down to each performers individual needs and performance style. Just because it is over priced for you doesn't mean it is an over priced product.



There you go again. Assuming others don't feed their families and pay their house payment with magic. Its no wonder I don't come here very often. I am very proud of you. You work 3-5 times a week doing a variety of things. If I were you I wouldnt come on here soundling like you are the only professional (whatever that means to you) on this board. It makes you sound like an a**

Just some thoughts. See you guys next year.
p:m
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At no point did I refrence to you and feeding your family, lol so wherever your getting that from beats me! Also, at no point did I say, "Im the only professional on this forum of the thousands that are members here". Perhaps you should have another read:

"But for regular working pros, doing shows 3-5 times a week at minimum, working corporate events, trade shows, cruise ships, what have you... It really comes down to each performers individual needs and performance style. Just because it is over priced for you doesn't mean it is an over priced product."

If you take offence to anothers opinion of a magic effect, perhaps this isn't the place for you afterall.

Eitherway, Happy new Year!

Now back to the actual effect....
p:m
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Michel Huot
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OK let's get back on track gang
we are talking about LETHAL , let's not forget it (this is the name of the effect, not how you should be together)
Tricks aren't important...people are!!!
Review King
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"Honey, I love you too much
Need your lovin' too much
Want the thrill of your touch
Gee, I cant hold you too much
You do all the livin'
While I do all the givin'
Cause I love you too much"

...ELVIS
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jimeh
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"uh huh-huh!! thank ya, thank ya very much.."
Review King
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"Ladies and Gentlemen, Bobby Motta has left the building"!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Bobby Motta
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Come on Chris... right behind ya buddy!!
doctor_joe
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Bobby,

I am not sure if I can afford this effect because I am just an amateur/hobbyist magician. However, the promotional video posted on YouTube is very well produced and the performance is excellent. This is a routine that is easy for the audience to follow and it definitely holds their attention. Except for the magnificent illusions of the magicians of the past and the grand productions by Copperfield, Blaine and Angel, very few routines are so captivating.

Joe Finkler
Vancouver, CANADA
Bobby Motta
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Hi Joe,
Thank you for your kind words. Lethal has been my puppy for quite some time and I have had a ton of fun with it. Like any effect it took work in the real world to make it as entertaining as it is. The way the prop is designed has allowed me to play around with different presentations and the scripting has been a blast too. If you have any questions I would be more than happy to assist.
Take care Joe!!

bee oh bee bee why!
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