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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts 
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What is your take on someone who receives a DVD and just doesn't like the method. Now they want a refund. I never had it happen before, and I am bending over backwards to work with the guy.
He got one DVD which had a pixel glitch, I sent another and now the excuse is that he thought the method was different.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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David Todd Inner circle 2328 Posts
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Well, in some cases I guess I can see that being a legit reason because sometimes people put half-baked stuff out that is just horrible and doesn't work at all in real performing conditions, but knowing your reputation and skill level I would think that whatever you are selling on DVD is probably really solid .
In this case I think it's the "once the Secret's Told the Trick is SOLD " principle or whatever it is the old dealer's used to say. I don't know ... do you think this is someone you'll get repeat business from ? Maybe it's worth giving away one DVD to make some future sales ? Sometimes these people are just the types that are never satisfied unless you give them real magic. It's a judgement call ... |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts
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I can claim I don't like the method on any trick, or that I thought it was different. If I know how it is done, why am I buying it? You replaced the faulty disk that is as far as you need go. That is a standard practice in the sale of magic and magic DVD's the secret is the price of the trick, once it is opened, no return, no refund, unless defective.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Thanks guys, so far I offered to send him some other effects from my site, even offered half back as a refund. The guy is a Café member and that's the only reason I even tried to square it up. I shipped post paid on both the item and the replacement. I also use paypal and pretty much use the cash as soon as it is in the piggy bank.
Your feedback has helped and confirmed my opinion, I was just curious what other dealers might do. Supposedly, this fellow saw a post about Steven's version of Linking Ropes and I had made the comment that mine had less moves. It seems that the buyer didn't know that Linking ropes was gimmicked. I include a non-gimmicked linking ropes in my DVD, so you would think that would have sufficed.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts
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I tend to be a little annoyed when a seller doesn't tell me of a needed gaff, and I get fairly mad when I later find I have to buy the gaff extra in order to do the effect. The only other thing I think is worth being picqued about is have I bought an old effect that has been remarketed without telling me?
I assume the gaffed ropes are included, yes? If not, did the effect mention that one would need to buy things to make it work? If either are "yes", I am totally cool with all else. As far as "thinking the method was different" - what does that mean? If I knew how it was done, why buy it? I have bought lots of stuff I didn't like (have never purchased from Ian) but that's paying my dues! The offer of half refund was more than generous- go no further... Jim
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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Ian
My opinion is that you do so much with so few moves it seems hardly worth the price. "Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration" Thomas A. Edison.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-12 22:26, Al Angello wrote: I am not sure that came out right..are you saying hardly worth the price?? But because I know you Al, its a question of getting the job done with the most efficient moves. Streamlining an effect and eliminating the difficulties. This and maintaining the integrity of the effect. As in the case of the much downloaded "professor Ian's nightmare", they got a 3 minute download and were perfectly satisfied. By the way Al, you should try that with red white and blue ropes. Anyway, in answer to the previous post, yes...I include all apparatus required and bonus material, alternate material and shipping is free.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts
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If people could return DVDs after viewing and realizing it wasn't what they thought then the shops would never get to do anything but process returns. I'm assuming the person is very new to magic but he got what he paid for and he needs to learn to be more selective I guess.
While I agree getting the gimmicks etc is great at least let it be something obtainable. I have known magicians to lecture on items (I won't say names but they know who they are) featuring things that are no longer manufactured so if someone buys their notes they are useless. This is rope magic so I can guess what the gimmick is. I also keep mind that this Ian fellow isn't doing a huge distribution but selling a few DVDs so he can't exacty go buy 1000 gimmicks and expect to make money off it. To heck with the complainer Ian, based on what you said he has nothing to say. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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No Ian
I was saying that your moves are the moves of a minimalist, but when I go back to read my own post it doesn't exactly say what I was thinking.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Thanks to all of you. I know it seems that I am naive and new on the planet, but I do doubt my sanity at times.
Every DVD is generated in real time right now, until I start distribution. Then I will have it replicated. I crammed 90 minutes onto the one combo DVD and still maintained 100% resolution quality. The whole machine gets drained when I burn the DVD's and I have to spot test them after the burn. Anyway, those of you who have my Dances routine, give me a buzz for free update.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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KOTAH Inner circle 2290 Posts
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This guy is way off base. Your material is worth every penny you ask for it.
Seems to me he is just looking to get over on you/ something for nothing. The days of free lunch are long gone. I wouldn't concern myself with it. Some people will never be happy no matter how you try to please them. |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-13 18:40, KOTAH wrote: I think you are right. On the one hand the fellow said he couldn't view the DVD, I sent a replacement which he didn't get yet, and yet he is saying he thought the method was different. Oh well. There are people who want to get over. I am airing this conversation so as to get back-up on what would be a fair policy. If the client wasn't part of the Café community I probably wouldn't be so liberal. Now, this same guy will probably buy the "stevens" linking rope effect and good luck returning that one.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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tedski Special user New Jersey 792 Posts
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Ian, I think your rope DVD is great and clearly had a lot of thinking put into it. I agree, you owe this customer nothing at this point.
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts
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Ok it just hit me what DVD this fellow was complaining about. If he wants a refund on dances with ropes he is way off base, and should not be taken seriously.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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L Trunk Loyal user Australia 207 Posts
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Please let us (me) know when you have the new dvd replicated.
Cheers, Lyndon |
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Brian Proctor Inner circle Somewhere 2325 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-12 19:39, magicians wrote: I would not put up with it. I would let him know that you thought he was starting to jerk your chain. So too bad if he does not like the method. That happens in magic. |
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-13 22:21, Al Angello wrote: The newest release of Dances added my entire lecture plus the Tango effect I showed you. It also includes an ungimmicked linking ropes that cannot be discerned from the original (normal ropes). That was created in response to the "Stevens" linking demo. I had made a comment about that demo and said it was more of a puzzle than an effect, and that I could do the same thing with less moves (and you know I can). This buyer got the dvd package which included the linking ropes and didn't want the apparatus. What he never saw was the fact that the linking ropes technique was "training" to do the ungimmicked version. Sort of like hitting a softball on a rope vrs. hitting a pitched ball. Once you get the swing of it, you don't need the rope (gimmick). This feedback forum is great. As you know Al, I have sent video clips out and people see raw material complete with mistakes. Then, when I redo the material for publication.. it is still first exposure. So, I listen to all feedback. When a client is "mislead" by his own misconception, I still have to consider his opinion as constructive. My first ad on this will be in Magic magazine September issue.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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magicians Inner circle Teacher and Legend 2898 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-13 22:37, L Trunk wrote: The "replicated version" is going to happen shortly. I just have to have the best "original" generation, and because I had a few "pixelations" on some of the duplications, I had to exchange a few dvd's. I have solved that problem now. There is so much material on this combo version, I truly wanted to reshoot some of it just for continuity. When I include Video material from composit sources, I have to adjust volume levels and readjust some of the graphics. When done, I have a 90 minute DVD, no commercials or fluff conversations. The final cut includes components to learn, then puts all of the components together. Three live shows, then bonus material. So, the "replicated version" is going to happen when I release this thru distributors late Sept/October. But, there is nothing wrong with the release right now.
Illusionist, Illusionist consulting, product development, stage consultant, seasoned performer for over 35 years. Specializing in original effects. Highly opinionated, usually correct, and not afraid of jealous critics. I've been a puppet, a pirate, a pawn and a King. Free lance gynecologist.
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-12 19:39, magicians wrote: Huh? Was he expecting REAL Magic? The method is ALWAYS a let-down, always has been, always will be...and that's why we keep the secret from the laymen. Assuming the buyer of Magic has no legitimate gripe about cr*ppy workmanship (not there's any of that shipping out of India or anything...), then there are no grounds for a complaint. IMO. Perhaps instead of Magic he should try stamp collecting or decoupage. Leland |
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L Trunk Loyal user Australia 207 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-08-14 09:03, magicians wrote: I thought the problems would be little niggles like those. That's fine really, but seeing as you are already committed to making the production side of things gleam I'll get it in the month or two. |
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Posted: Aug 12, 2008 11:39 pm 
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