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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You Oughta Be In Pictures » » Two of my retention vanish techniques (videos) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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maxmaximus
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austria
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Hi mates,

Here are two vids of my retention vanish techniques...difference is in the second video, the first finger is outstretched. I have, I think, 7 further techniques for this lovely sleight, which are of course different in handling. Hope you enjoy it...comments are welcome...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuRDqqsL8Fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-tm0UawJgE

Greetz from Austria,
max
Stanyon
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There was nothing wrong with any of them. You did have more burn during the second vanish on the first video, though.

Cheers! Smile
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

"Every move a move!"

"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
Jonathan Townsend
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The basic "right puts coin into left" part looks good.

The rest of your actions, though...unmotivated.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
maxmaximus
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austria
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"The rest of your actions, though...unmotivated."

True...it's only a single sleight, not a whole routine. My aim was to create a technique for the retention vanish that uses no visible wrist or finger movement and can be done slow...

greetz
Rob Stewart
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Max.....
Your vanish looks really nice. The lack of movement in the right hand is very natural looking. I don't mind admitting it fooled me. I would like to hear your ideas on keeping the right hand free of movement. I thought I had reduced the movement in my right hand as much as I could, but obviously it can be done with less. Any advice or ideas would be great.
Rob Stewart
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Mb217
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Max, good job on the ROV. Smile

I've heard people talk about doing this with lack of any perceptible finger movement, and I guess that's good I suppose, but really if you're doing this right, I don't think a spec perceives any noticeable movement. I guess if you hold it there long enough they might, but in the real world you mostly don't. The move happens in a second, you get the same burn, and you're off to the next stage of whatever you're doing. I remember Justin Miller (Silver Dream) speaking about this as well.

Anyway, it looks pretty good, but I just don't think anyone would really notice that the fingers don't move that much because they really shouldn't notice it at all whether you do it fast or slow, or even slower (except for magis maybe, but specs don't have a clue on this). The real preoccupation is with where the burn is seen last. It's the only thing the mind sticks with regarding the action. Just my view on it.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
feher
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Vanish 3 looks the best, while I know this is just a "what do you think", but I have to say bringing the dirty hand closest to us takes away from the vanish. I hope that's not how you do it for spectators.
Looks great, just don't know why it's so important not to move the right hand when in action this isn't an all-attention-on-the-coin sleight. I call this a secondary sleight done during patter with the main focus not on the sleight. I hope that made some sense.
Anyways, keep up the good work.
Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
Michael Rubinstein
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The first vanish is an old one. You can see it on the Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights DVD. The second one has a good burn, but a closed hand always looks suspicious. So, the better of the two in my mind is the first.
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MickeyPainless
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Leaving the critique to those better qualified than me and viewing as a spectator only.... I bought all 3!
Nice work, man!

Mick
maxmaximus
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austria
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Wow...thanks for all the feedback. As I told before, my aim was to create a technique for the retention vanish without any movement of the right hand. In the real world, I normally don't use the two techniques because (mb said it) the specs won't realize the right hand movement and are fixed to the coin retention. The technique I use depends on the fact in what position I need the coin for the next move...for example when I need the coin in fingertip rest position, I do the classic one.

@ Michael Rubinstein: Yes, the technique for the first vanish is well known...add some little subtleties, and you can reduce the movement. The second one I never saw in print anywhere...

Greetz,
max
Rob Stewart
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Thanks for the info, Max. I will look up Michael's technique.
Rob Stewart
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tpax
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Columbia, Maryland
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One thing to consider: When I put a coin in my hand, there is a little movement in the fingers as they extend to place the coin in the hand. This is the natural movement and the action I try to replicate when I do a retention vanish. Is this how you normally transfer a coin from one hand to another, with no finger movement?
Mb217
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The goal is to put (or make them "think") the coin in the other hand - simple. In the mind of the spec and his logic following the movement, there can be no jump- cut (or not much of one outside the logic of the moment), so every movement must mimic what would happen if you were actually putting the the coin there... The mind is somewhat on automatic and anticipating logical actions. As long as you stay close-enough to this road the spec suspects nothing, and that's exactly all you want him to do. Any such minor movement of the fingers in doing a ROV is also hidden behind the larger movement of the hands, arms, etc. Since the burn is the only lasting memory in all this, everything else is somewhat discarded as not important... It's sorta like a visual equivoque in that the spec is left unable to backtrack to figure out how something happened that they can't quite understand upon the eventual result of amazement. Hopefully they are more euphoric in that amazement than inquisitive, but that would be attached more so to just how well you did what you did. Good talk. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Larry Barnowsky
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The retention of vision vanish should be fluid. Leaving the right hand in the left hand as the left hand closes in order to conceal the move is a mistake. You'll fool the camera but not the spectator doing that. It looks suspicious. You also lose the "burn" by doing it slowly. The goal of not moving the fingers of the right hand is of dubious value. I'm not sure whose advice that is, but I don't think it contributes to a good ROV vanish. As mentioned by Marion above, movement of the right fingers is natural and expected. By keeping the right hand stiff, it looks odd. Strive for a fluid, continuous motion, and hold the coin by the very tips of the fingers if your technique allows that.

Larry
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2008-08-15 13:34, maxmaximus wrote:
Hi mates,

Here are two vids of my retention vanish techniques...


Max, it's good you are exploring the basic retention pass - though I'm confused by your use of the word "my". Are you claiming these are new and not already in our literature?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
maxmaximus
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austria
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Hi,

@ Jonathan: As I said before, the technique for the first vanish is well known...the second one (with the extended first finger and no movement) I never saw in print...

@ all: I never said that this is the ultimate or best retention vanish...the only thing I wanted to show is that you can do this move very slow and without any movement. When you do it faster, you get a better burn and it looks really well...also using a dollar coin would improve the visuals...

greetz
Jonathan Townsend
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Okay, Max. The second technique is an application of Al Schneider's sleight and has been published in context of a retention pass at least once - including once by yours truly, who also extended the action to take the coin into Edge Grip - you can find this mentioned in print in "Coin Go-Return" in Harry Lorrayne's Apocalypse, and it has been shown around since 1978.

Always better to ask around quietly before making a claim of "new".
...to all the coins I've dropped here
maxmaximus
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austria
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Hi Jonathan,

I don't use the middle finger to pull back and clip the coin between these two fingers...for example, Kaiona Harbottle uses this technique and puts the coin in edge grip. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Al Schneider's sleight is different to mine... And, yes, you are right, nowadays you have to be careful using the word "new"...at least for me it was new. Smile

thx and greetz
Jonathan Townsend
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? Second finger sweep- also used by others, including Richard Kaufman - it's quite a utility move. The R2EG is yours truly's, but...anyway, you can see that action used in my EG2EG in Kainoa'a Coins on Edge book as well.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
maxmaximus
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austria
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But I don't use the second finger sweep for retention vanish...
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