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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » New version of the Opium Coin from Kreis magic (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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goldeneye007
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Come on...! Of course bigger is not always better... but we're talking here about a VISUAL effect... How could bigger not be better if people hardly can see the smaller version...

I assure you that I have performed it several times for a bunch of people (ie cabaret magic) and EVERY SINGLE TIME people from the second row right to the back asked what happened and only saw the transformation AFTERWARDS... which really is a pity for a visual trick which is supposed to be seen on the spot...

No, really, I can't see ANY argument in favour of the half-dollar size. The reason that it does not exsist is clear and comprehensible: it would be hard work to invest in a dollar-size version, although I assure you that A LOT of magicians would be interested. The half-dollar size version is selling good so why bother manufacturing a better version? It's a pity. But I'd probably would have reacted the same way if I were you...

I was happy with my purchase and I repeat it it's REALLY a BRILLIANT idea but now I tend to regret it because I only can do it close-up for 4-5 people at the most. Anyway, don't take it personally, but as you said it was invented 18 years ago, it means that in two years time the rights for the opium coins will be over... So anybody will be allowed to manufacture some... in Dollar-size... Maybe it should be worth considering that and get some more royalties? Smile
Ben BV
KOTAH
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Please site for me the legal prescidence which states that 20 years is the cut off date for rights to something a person has created; opening the door for someone else to make an unauthorized version. I would be most interested, my lawyers would be too. Iam sorry if you have regre ts. THey call it close up magic for a reason. Sounds like you may have been performing micro magic. GEt custom work if you need larger coins. PErhaps some one might make them in three inch coins or larger . You say don't take it personally; but Opium coins are mine, and I do.

Ronald Dayton
goldeneye007
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Man! Hey... Slow down... Looks like an 8-year-old kid looking after his toys... Ok it's your invention and yes it's a really good one, but don't over-react...

Your agressivity helps me not to take your attack ("micro magic"...) personnal. The fact is it's too small to see, that's all. For a table of 3-4 people it's ok, but for over 5-6 people it's not. And it's not just my opinion, it's my experience of people telling me that that speaks for itself. And other magician friends tell me the same.

A patent is only valid for 20 years (as I told you in my message I'm also a consultant for a law firm specialised in patent law)... Just wanted to let you know, but I guess your lawyers already told you...

I don't intend to have them custom made. Anyway it wouldn't be right to do so. And I wouldn't care writing that down here if I intended to do that. It's your business. Maybe manufacturing it in Dollar-size would be a good business for you, that's all...

PM'd you...
Ben BV
KOTAH
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Hey man slow down? After 54 years of involvement in magic; I am very protective of my toys. IF you or anyone wants to equate that with acting like an eight year old child, that's up to them. For me it is the right and wrong / ethics in magic.
a recent proliferation of theft has helped to bring the bizarrist magazine, the ORACLE to an end. Just because something may be legal does not translate to ethical.

Ronald Dayton
goldeneye007
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I know and as I told you in my last PM I completely agree... But it's not a reason to over-react... PM'd you...
Ben BV
KOTAH
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I PM'd you as well goldeneye, may cooler heads prevail.


Ronald Dayton
goldeneye007
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Smile
Ben BV
Judah Vee
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So I decided to buy a set...... Hope they are up to par as I have a set of quarters I got YEARS ago and they are not the best.....
I don't care how fast or slow you are.... As long as I am faster.. -J-
Mb217
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IMHO, I think kotah is protective for a good reason in all this. He has established a proper pipeline that works and while it seems he does see the demand for another version it could compromise what has worked now for him for years on such a wonderful coin set. Personally I don't blame him as all this stuff can get very sticky and go very wrong and become quite nasty...See the Digital Dissolve debacle as it pertained to original effect inventor, Steve Dusheck for reference. It was not pretty and probably never would've been so addressed or corrected without unending cries for justice here on the Café. The fight was long, dirty and hard and quite disrespectful to Steve, his more than 50yrs as a creator/practitioner/performer in magic, and his family, who remained a gentleman throughout the theft, challenge and ordeal. His very human and warm side did not stop enterprising individuals from ravaging this and many of his fine works.

I know that none of you fine gentlemen here mean any such harm but sh*t happens, trust me I've witnessed it and it ain't pretty.

Anyway, it would be nice to see a larger dollar set (even bigger) at work as it is clearly more visual as seen in something possibly relative like this...Just beautiful! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6xnoNGPT3g

Oh well, maybe one day but certainly not at the expense of the creator and his blessings about it. That's what having the rights to something is all about, whether we like it or not personally.
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
KOTAH
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Mb217, I certainly appreciate your comments. Steve and I shared a column in MUM for a while. I have reams of his original hand written routines We often brainstormed on ideas for the projects of others such as Larry White. Steve is definitely a creative force. I wishhe would actively return to magic. Perhaps theft was one reason he took a break?
I Believe anyone ordering the Kreis set will be impressed by the quality.
Rest easy Judah Vee. THankyou all for your interest.

Ronald Dayton
Judah Vee
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I've liked some of the other Kreis magic I have gotten, so I am sure that they will be nice!
I don't care how fast or slow you are.... As long as I am faster.. -J-
Joshua Barrett
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I don't see what's wrong with it in half dollar size. I'm certainly not looking to do something like this on a stage. The whole dollar sized thing supposedly being more visual is blown way out of proportion. Saying the difference between a half dollar and a dollar is that "they can't see it" is a load of hogwash. I use basically only halves, and I've never ever had a problem with people not seeing something, unless I messed up and did not display something right.
Judah Vee
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I partially agree with Josh...(Good luck on the honeymoon!!!) I have ONLY worked in halves and have never had an issue with someone not seeing what I was doing. BUT, the option for dollars would be nice for people with larger hands. (not mine)
I don't care how fast or slow you are.... As long as I am faster.. -J-
Mb217
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To be honest, I use halves also for the most part, but it's hard to deny the greater visibility when you watch Rick Merrill do his thing in the vid I posted. That was not on any stage, that was in someone's living room. Just a few specs, and it was highly visual, right up close, and got even more visual when he brought in the Jumbo coins. I'm sure he could do it with halves, but it wouldn't have looked as nice as what he used there in close quarters.
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Joshua Barrett
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That's true, MB, it was in a living room, but I'd bet the routine was made for a parlor/stand-up venue, not necessarily close-up magic. Also, video is a whole different thing.
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On 2008-08-29 11:54, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with it in half dollar size. I'm certainly not looking to do something like this on a stage. The whole dollar sized thing supposedly being more visual is blown way out of proportion. Saying the difference between a half dollar and a dollar is that "they can't see it" is a load of hogwash. I use basically only halves, and I've never ever had a problem with people not seeing something, unless I messed up and did not display something right.


I'm sorry, Joshua, but it's not only my opinion that the trick done in halves is not very visual for parlour magic. I've done it several times, and EACH time people had difficulties in seeing the transformation (except, of course, for the people in the first row).

The problem also is that the difference of contrast between the half dollar and the Chinese coin is not that big...which is less the case with Rick Merrill's coins.


When I use Dollar coins I never have that kind of problem, and my hands are not particularly big.
Ben BV
KOTAH
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Too hard to see? You'll recall Doug Henning opened a nationally televised special with the Fickel Nickel. Close-up workers never complained about my effect; Crackerjack Love in which a nickel changes into a gemstone ring on the female spectator's ring finger. I am not arguing the point, just stating facts.

Ronald Dayton
goldeneye007
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Man...did I complain about the EFFECT? No, I complained about the SIZE (see, sometimes it's a question of size after all... Smile ). I use the Opium Coins in close up, and they're really fine; but for parlour magic, it's just too small, and it's also a fact since it happened to me all the time.

Concerning the television special, I've seen it. And with a camera, you can zoom on the effect, and of course millions of people can see what's happening. I haven't learnt yet how to zoom in on my hands, i.e. make them bigger so that everybody sees better ( Smile ), and that's why bigger coins would help... Smile
Ben BV
KOTAH
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A lawyer and a magician, man; goldeneye, you are as tenacious as my friend Michael Weber. You have worn me down. I am currently arranging to have Kreis make the Opium available in dollar size if it is possible. I will post again when I know which way the mop flops. For now, I need a nap!

Kotah
Judah Vee
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Ever the stone grinder, goldeneye!!! LoL.... Here's a neat tidbit: Nakashima Kengo of Kreis Magic is sending me the Opium Coins for me to inspect PRIOR to me paying. How about that? And if I don't want them, he said to send them back.....I pay just the postage. This is a totally cool way to do business in the magic field! I applaud them!!!


'POOF'
I don't care how fast or slow you are.... As long as I am faster.. -J-
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