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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You Oughta Be In Pictures » » Youell's on YouTube and Hell Has Frozen Over (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jcards01
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Inner circle
Waterloo, IL
1438 Posts

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I deal with the same problem of putting more things on my site. I think the route that Steven has chosen is fine. Performing a sleight without exposing the fundementals that allow anyone to perform it.

Although like the people that we are, others will try to invent how he is doing it on their own even though they have no clue what he is doing.

It can also benefit other dedicated people who do not have a clue as to what Erdnase is as in the example he created and they can re-read what he references and say, "so that's how it's supposed to look", therefore learning and improving what they do.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
www.jimmycards.com
Daegs
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Inner circle
USA
4283 Posts

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Quote:
2) Insist that the website owner create individual passwords for each registered user.

I believe that both of these options are impossible to achieve


Can you please explain this, because I am 100% certain that I can create individual passwords for each registered user with no interaction with the website owner at all, other than initially setting up the solution which is a 5min job.
CardWiz
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Special user
Charleston, SC
626 Posts

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Looks quite professional.

I have subscribed.

CW
People have been calling me "Yu" lately. I don't know, must be Chinese.
MickeyPainless
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Inner circle
California
6074 Posts

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Steven,
Looks good and I hope it fly's!

How many messages have you received from the UTube kiddies saying "Dude, yer palm iz frikkin wicked cool! Ware can I lernt it and do U wanna trade 4 my Torrent of "____________" by "_________________"? Pryvet me so we can trayed stuff"

I think Andru has the best method of keeping out the wannabe's just in his web address! You could make yours something like "HardworkandDeterminationCombindedWithCountlessHoursOfStudy.com"

Always enjoy your contributions,

Mick
Marvelous_Mysto
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Adelaide, Australia
143 Posts

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Hi Daegs,
I thought that if someone had to register individually, then the website owner would need to check the person, to see if they were really a magician or just chasing secrets. Once that had been done, an individual password would need to be issued. The issuing of a password could use a password generator, but involves an amount of manual intervention by the site owner. If someone was a travelling lecturer, and not online 24/7, the task of vetting users, and issuing passwords, may become too onerous.
I am not an expert, so I would like to continue the dialogue.
Please PM Steven Youell, if you have info that could assist him.

Regards
Baz
michaelmagicart
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Loyal user
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Excellent Steven! Professionally presented, and that is quite obvious. As far as being on YouTube, I can see no problem at all. Nothing is exposed, but an appetite for perfection is certainly being whetted. I am sure that demos like this will encouraging those who are serious, to practice more and perfect their handling. Keep up the good work.
rorythegreat
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Seattle, WA
393 Posts

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Looks good Steven. I have subscribed and am looking forward to more.
wsduncan
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Seattle, WA
3619 Posts

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Quote:
I'm not sure if the benefits to the magic community (and me) outweigh the negatives or not-- but I do know that it's not as simple problem as it seems. So I am willing to listen to other ideas.

What's your opinion?

Pretty simple solution really: don't post videos of techniques, labeled as such, on an entertainment website frequented primarily by laymen. Magic Video Depot is the place for such things, if you don't want to host them on your own site.

Beyond that, I can see no reason to post videos which demonstrate that invisible moves are possible, where laymen gather. You can just as easily demonstrate a simple effect that uses the technique, and name it something other than the method.

For example: to demonstrate the DPS one could simply place a card face up in the middle of the pack, square it, and then spread the pack to show that it had vanished.

Labeling a video "palm," showing face up cards vanish, and then showing where the cards go when they vanish. If that's not exposure, what is? It's not a teaching video, but neither was the Masked Magician.
Roger Kelly
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Kent, England
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Quote:
On 2008-08-31 13:50, Dan McLean wrote:
Quote:
On 2008-08-31 12:35, Roger Kelly wrote:
Am I missing something? Surely this should NOT be made available for all to see?


See what????


Well it's like this. I see a form of exposure that I am uncomfortable with. Even Steven kinda admits to it in one of his posts. I agree that the method is not tipped but there is blatant acknowledgement that there's actually no magic and is nothing more than an example of very clever sleight of hand. I just don't think that this should be on a public website and am a bit surprised that someone of Mr Youell's stature in the magic fraternity is putting it to the test.

Steven invites opinions and this is mine, but I'm in the minority here and happy to wind my neck in.
Steven Youell
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For those who believe I am guilty of exposure, I would be interested in knowing how you would demonstrate to the "YouTube" magicians what proper technique should look like-- how would you reach them and counter their ideas of what good sleight of hand should look like?

Please remember that I am on the fence here and only want to do something that benefits magic.

If I posted an example of a Side Steal yet didn't show the card on top afterwards, would that be different?

Steven Youell
MickeyPainless
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California
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I personally don't see this as exposure but merely a demo that would generate desire to seek more info on the work!

Just my dos centavos,

Mick
Roger Kelly
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Kent, England
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Steven, I just think that this is a dangerous way to go. As wsduncan pointed out, you've even exposed a type of method in the title of the video. Okay the method isn't shown but it's your acceptance to share with the world that all we actually do here to entertain our audiences is some clever technical sleight of hand. In my opinion this runs the risk of eliminating that wonder element that we all strive for in our audiences. If too many people see your video, and any more like it, all spectators are going to think is, "Yeah, clever maaan. But we all know about the clever palms, steals etc etc...."

The Magic Video Depot may have the answer. At least you'll be narrowing down the audience and even then, I'm not sure if such exposure belongs there.

As I said, I'm very much in the minority here and I've offered an opinion. Most others don't see a problem with it and I don't have anything more to say on the subject so this is the last on it from me. I wish you luck.
Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2008-09-01 03:18, Roger Kelly wrote:
Steven, I just think that this is a dangerous way to go.


Roger-- please let me make this clear: your opinion is important to me. The opinion of wsduncan is important to me. I don't want ANYONE believing that I am doing harm to magic. So if you two would continue the discussion, I would greatly appreciate it. Let me ask you this:

Would just doing a trick like Triumph on YouTube be exposure? I think we can agree that would be safe, right?

Next, consider the example in my previous post-- if the result of the sleight is NOT shown, then it wouldn't be exposure, right? In other words, the exposure comes from showing the cards in the hand AFTER the palm, right?

Steven Youell
Roger Kelly
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Kent, England
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Okay, I'll rejoin this interesting debate but I've gotta dash for the train to he who pays the bills! In the meantime Steven let me ask you this:

What does your conscience say?

I don't think you've committed a heinous crime here. But your video in this case, I believe, gives away a bit too much of our craft. And all it is is my humble opinion. I'd say go with the flow!
Review King
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Eternal Order
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While I don't think this video clip will end close-up card magic as we know it, why should an accomplished card man post not a routine, but the explanation of a sleight?

If the goal is to "demonstrate to the "YouTube" magicians what proper technique should look like" then why note post a killer card routine?

That was one sweet palm Steve executed! I think using ti in a routine is what would be inspiring to those that came across it on YouTube.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2008-09-01 04:25, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:If the goal is to "demonstrate to the "YouTube" magicians what proper technique should look like" then why note post a killer card routine?


Chris,

I thought of that but then it became rather problematic for me because I believe that to see the VALUE of a killer card routine, it should be taped in front of a live audience.

I also thought of doing videos of classic effects the way they were meant to be performed so that the YouTube magicians could see what the effects were supposed to look like.

For me the problem with these two ideas is that I do this stuff alone. No audience, no one to pick cards, etc. It is VERY hard to entertain a video camera. It's even harder to play off the REACTIONS of a video camera. See?

I am determined, however, to figure out a solution that will still have the results I want and make as many people on this thread happy and satisfied that I am doing more good for magic than I am harm.

Steven Youell
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Steve could have posted the video(s) and never said a word. So, thanks to Steve for coming and asking opinions. Through cordial dialog, we all learn and move forward.

Steve, I know some "name" guys that have done DVD's have done just them and the camera and did the "we'll have the cameraman call stop" when choosing cards, etc. While it's nice to see and hear the audience, it's the routine and it's execution that would be of most interest to me.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Steven Youell
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Quote:
On 2008-09-01 04:45, Christopher Kavanagh wrote:Steve, I know some "name" guys that have done DVD's have done just them and the camera and did the "we'll have the cameraman call stop" when choosing cards, etc. While it's nice to see and hear the audience, it's the routine and it's execution that would be of most interest to me.


Yep, I've seen that. But you're a seasoned pro, so you'd have the benefit of looking at something and having the experience that would tell you it'd get great reactions. The "YouTube" guys for the most part, don't. They're in a different place.

But the more I'm able to talk about this with people like you, the closer I think I'm coming to a solution.

Steven Youell
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Steve, I'm just hack that loves magic. If I was good enough to match the worst Youtube videos, I'd out one up:-)
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Gustaf
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Subscribed!
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