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mr shiney Loyal user 266 Posts |
Just got booked for a child's bday at a nursery and they have asked for a
risk assessment. could anyone kindly pm me there risk assessment form as I would not know were to start and then I could use the form as a template many thanks jason |
rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Never heard of it - might this be something like "this product packaged in a facility that also processes peanuts?"
I'm interested in hearing about what people send you. Question to better legal minds: Say you fill out the form, and some unfopreseeable thing happens that you didn't list ... maybe a kid gets unruly and pulls your table over on his head ... is this form a way of making sure you're held liable (instead of the nursery) for things you're not insured against? |
Jeff Haas Special user 929 Posts |
Hmm...here's a few things to start with, this may help you with their concerns.
1. List all the things you do NOT include in your show that could be considered risky. (Fire, liquids, knives, live animals, foods, juggling, etc.) 2. Provide documentation of your liability insurance. 3. Explain how the show works so they can easily picture in their minds how you'll do it. I'd guess they had someone come in and do something unexpected (throwing big things around, break something accidentally, whatever) and now they quiz everyone about what they do. This should give them peace of mind that you do not have any risky stuff in your show. |
Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Frankly, before I did anything I would go BACK to the source and ask THEM what they would like to see in a risk assessment and ask them for a template or sample format. If they don't know, how can they expect you to? This will save you major headaches.
I've never heard of this sort of request before...but, I fear we'll be seeing more of it in the near future. Risk assessment for a daycare show - go figger!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Call them back and ask them what they mean, would save you a lot of time. In some places now days they want background checks on entertainers at child care places and schools. It could be that. Don't waste time guessing what they want, ask them.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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bizjak New user 48239 57 Posts |
I have never heard of a risk assesment for ashow before and we do quite a few childrens shows...both small and large. I'd go with the previous suggestions and find out what they want and go from there. You may decide that this is not something that you want to get involved in if it limits your creativity or performance.
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
All business in the UK has to have every aspect of their operation assessed and a written risk assessment made for each and every aspect. Reassessments need to be carried out regularly.
I cannot imagine that American business does not similarly require risk assessments. It's the law in the UK and Europe and we are supposed not to be as litigious as you folks. You assess every aspect of your business as it affects third parties, highlighting those aspects which form a risk. Start with arrival and how your props are unpacked in a safe manner, how your backdrop is assembled so there is limited opportunity for it to fall and injure anyone and the steps taken to prevent this happening, and those aspects of the performance where there is some possible danger. There has to be some aspect/s where there is a chance of something happening. Then you address those aspects and describe the steps taken to prevent or limit the danger. What steps have you considered to prevent children harming themselves on your props/bags/baggage which may be behind you or out of the way. In other words, how do you prevent anyone from harming themselves, even though they shouldn't be where your possessions are. State the risks and the steps taken to minimise harm to people. You can include copies of your Electrical Apparatus Test Certificate/s covering lighting and sound equipment. Make sure the self adhesive labels affixed by the tester to each electrical item is in place as these cross reference with the certificates and some organisations Health & Safety Officers will check them. Electrical testing in the UK is supposed to be carried out every twelve months. Public Liability Insurance is a separate issue as are personal Police Checks. In the UK you are generally required to update the risk assessment annually which can simply be the previous years Assessment updated. But if anything has changed during the year, you need to address the changes. And if you are very lucky, lots of places won't even enquire whilst others will take your paperwork apart, checking every full stop.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Oh man! Are you serious??? All this to do a kid's show?
Tell them since you've gotten out of prison, not one other child has been seriously injured or killed during one of your performances and it's already been a whole week! C'mon Tony, you're pullin' our leg, right? |
devlinn Regular user Orangeville, ON 118 Posts |
Hi Tony;
Great explanation. I don't think it's so much a matter of North America being litigious but rather a fundamental difference in business philosophy. As it has been explained to me, in the EU you need to demonstrate the safety worthiness of your product or service before it can be put on the market. (Guilty until proven innocent) In North America you are expected to anticipate the potential hazards and will be sued out of existence if you make a mistake. In a general sense, there are as few/minimal barriers to entry into the market place but ton's of risk if you screw-up. The idea is that market is perfect and self correcting....strong survive, weak perish. That's not to say there isn't government regulation. We often close the barn door after the horses have left and regulate to the extreme after a problem has been identified... |
rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Tony (or other Brits):
Is it possible to include, in the form, what steps your customers are expected to take to avoid disasters not covered by your own planning? For instance, "sponsors are required to keep children in their seats and not let them stick their faces in my flash pots before they are ignited" or "school will prevent children from climbing my sword ladder barefoot."?? I know in the US every product, from a computer to (it seems) a pencil, includes a special booklet advising in three or more languages "do not operate this vaccum cleaner underwater, or use it in a bathtub", "do not put your cat in this microwave," etc. and I always thought it superfluous, except (of course) that all those cautions were written because some isiot had already tried to do such things. |
Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
My thoughts was first toward a background check. Boy Scouts and Catholic Institutions in my area require backgound checks of all persons who work around children.
Most likely they want to know about you, and if they could get sued because they hired someone they knew nothing about! Ask yourself, you have your precious three year old in a facility that allows "strangers" to have access to that facility, how would you respond to the director of that facility? Believe me, now-a-days, protecting their kid is a high priority.
Dennis Michael
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2475 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-04 23:53, Dennis Michael wrote: Yes. And without too many qualms. Why? Because I expect adequate supervision. I don't insist that the school get a background check on every plumber or roofer, and I certainly expect that the school would have people watching who came and went. Certainly a magician would (and should) be in public view. That's why that story a while back about a magician arrested for leaving the school with a child puzzled me greatly - NO ONE was limiting who could leave the building, and NO ONE questioned where the kid was going? The schools around here require sign-in by everyone who visits, and has a list of who is (and who is NOT, like maybe non-custodial parents) allowed to sign a child out. I do recall rejecting a possible daycare center for my kids because I went to inquire, looked in and waited to be greeted, and left after looking into a couple of rooms without a single person noticing me. |
Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-04 21:49, devlinn wrote: Thanks. That is illuminating. However, if you Google Risk Assessment some 25 million headings are listed. Risk Assessment America produces over 11 million. At a glance there is a great deal of activity in Europe but clearly so there is in America. The advantage of a risk assessment is that you have to consider the situation and this makes you aware of risks you may never have considered. And yes,you need these assessments including your electrical tests for local government education- schools, day care and so on. And no - as I said Mrs Blogs won't ask you for a private party. But a teacher may well. Don't confuse personal background checks and insurance and risk assessment. Background checks are about you the individual. Risk assessment has nothing to do with insurance. That's a protection policy. Risk assessment is a prevention policy.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
The Risk Assessment in Europe will clearly show the steps that need to be taken by every-one to have a safe show. It will also show the things you won't do (eg fire, fluids, dangerous tricks).
You only have to do it once and it does help you with your planning. You record the steps you take, and those you expect the staff to do. So for example, you record that you burst a balloon on forgetful freddy and then pick up all the pieces and put them into your bag to stop a 3-year old choking on one. You'd also record that the children remain seated through out the performance and that no-one can come on the stage without your INVITATION. This shows you've thought about the dangers and done all humanly possible to do this trick. Every UK school has at least two staff (site manager and designated teacher) who can help you fill-in the forms. Not every institution may ask for one, but it is always handy to have one ready. Many of David Ginn's books, and others from different magicians, help you learn about problems associated with some tricks for small children (like the balloon example above) but no examples of forms are included.They probably weren't even invented then and are slightly different for each LEA. You are not expected to give away magical secrets, but writing down swords through heads for 3-year olds etc might not help you keep the booking. And yes I am a designated teacher and my dad is a Site Manager. We regularly read Risk Assessments from people coming into school. And yes look at the electrical safety tags. (Again talk to your local school, find out when they are getting their stuff PAT tested and pay for your speakers/cd players etc to be tested as well. Most of the teachers do this with their own stuff anyway. It will only be a minimal fee - like £1 per item - and lasts a year.) So the bottom-line is get a good relationship with one school and they will guide you through the paper-work and procedure. Give the site manager a few balloon animals etc for his grand-kids and this should be no problem. Busy guys yes, ameinable to magicians definitely.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Risk Assessment form examples can be found here:
http://www.safetyphoto.co.uk/risk_assessment/index.htm None of them are for magicians, but could easily be adapted.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Of course, the first risk assessment is laid at the feet of the people in charge of the nursery. Bringing a group of children together into a room that requires them (and you) to be in close proximity for 30 minutes or so can be dangerous to your health, so you should get a guarantee from them that the children are all disease free (including free from sneezy, snivelly colds) and will not cough, sneeze or dribble their bodily fluids, bacteria and viruses onto you or your props. They'll either meet you at the door with a paper suit, face mask, and gloves, or you'll discover that they're not all that serious about risk assessment responsibilities.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
If any magician uses Risk assessment form 2 on the link Spellbinder gave above then that is pretty close to what schools and institutions would expect.
I'd do one for each trick on a pc and check if I'd covered all of the potential problems. Then it's easy to adapt. One for each trick? Well many of us change our routines (eg repeat performances in one venue without time to reset) so this covers us.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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Tony James Inner circle Cheshire UK 1398 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-08 12:52, themagiciansapprentice wrote: Well, you can if you like but frankly I don't and I wouldn't. I don't see it's necessary any more than a band would detail each of it's numbers and the presentations surrounding them. Deal with the overall job - not the individual detailed aspects. Use all embracing studies which take account of the detailed variables. Basically it's get in, set, general performance, strike and get out. In my case there's a build up and pull down to consider as well together with weather considerations and securing the show. I don't detail the variations of show. Don't over complicate it. Keep it straightforward and simple or some idiot is going to take you to task over some fine detail.
Tony James
Still A Child At Heart |
themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
Tony,
my show is normally eight tricks. For some like the change bag, colouring book/ stamp album, 20th century silks, dove pan, puppets there is nothing to record. Probably the only 'dangerous' trick I do is the tug of war rope through teacher. that only takes a couple of sentences. If I use fire or hand-chopper that is a whole new ball-game. And any balloon tricks that require popping / picking up the pieces. And obviously getting volunteers on stage with me, under the supervision of the school staff. So not much writing for my current show.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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