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Magicque
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Let's continue Matthew's good idea!!!! Go sign this!!!!

Just mention you will not buy anything from the sponsors of this show!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stopthemaskedman/


As Matthew said, let's send 10000 signatures!!!!

Eric
Illusionist11
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We already realized that this would just do worse than doing nothing about it.
Magicque
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Stop thinking like this! If we do not do anything, they will present it anyway!!!!! We've got nothing to lose!!! OK?! This is stupid thinking!
Illusionist11
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Yeah..but if we fail..that's just more people that will find out about it...and more people that are going to watch..I guarantee you that we can't stop it.
Matthew W
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What in the world could possibly be worse than having are trade secrets to all of the country?

The petition does not mention the network or the name of the show.
-Matt
Magicque
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Another good point Matthew!!!
As Dai Vernon once said "magicans stop thinking too soon!"
Magicque
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How about guys like Burton and Copperfield...Or Angel???!!
Can they do something against it???!!! Have they tried?!

They are the big names in the field! Can someone contact them???!!!
I know for a fact that Copperfield once presented the Twister effect! Or a DeKolta chair...
Matthew W
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Look at this:

http://www.myspace.com/the_masked_magician

Take a close look at his friends list. It really makes me sick.
-Matt
SillverFoxx
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Quote:
On 2008-09-07 21:13, Matthew W wrote:
Look at this:

http://www.myspace.com/the_masked_magician

Take a close look at his friends list. It really makes me sick.

I see a lot of porn stars and people whose pages are set to automatically accept friends requests... they may not know he's on their list.
pepka
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Creating and circulating petitions against these things draw more attention to it. One of these specials gave away linking rings a few years ago. How many of us are still using them? They also exposed the Table of Death illusion. I sat in a room full of laymen a few weeks ago and they all gasped when it was presented by Kalin and Jinger. There is enough magic out there to keep going, people will forget this in a few months. I'm really not at all concerned at all about these things.
stephane_arnow
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Hi Pepka,
I respect your opinion , but if anyone do nothing, it will be continue ans continue again. With a level ever higher.

in France, we have won : the TV program will never be on the big french program. And we didn't heard that a lot at TV . It didn't draw a lot attention to it, for sure. But only a little program on cable has bought it few years after (little part of audience). It can be done in USA, if YOU WANT. IF YOU DON'T WANT, you let the door open. It will never stop.It will be increase.

You give the example of Table of death, which was explained in the past... There is many improvements possible for this effect. But not for : a twister or even the ZigZag, and you think that everyone will forget the deceptive bases method ? If it more than an illusion, it is a method, used in so many effect. And that is more easier to remember than a complex illusion like the Table of death.

and again, I'm sure we will be surprise on the level of exposures, far higher than the 3 first series.

And If we need wait 10 years to re-perform a trick, it is very sad.

Anyone in USA magic circles has 'balls''...

Stephane
pepka
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Look, I've got plenty of balls, I keep them under my cups. All I'm saying is what a lot of professional ENTERTAINERS have been saying for years. Secrets are only tools. This is why a master performer can go and entertain with almost anything. Including a method which has been widely exposed. Do I really like these specials? Well, no, aside from the usual horrible explanations given for illusions such as a forklift levitation. Look, people forget. Many laymen ask me what I thought of the exposure specials and I ask what secrets they learned, and they can't remember a thing. What do they remember? Magicians looking silly and raising a fuss.
j.i.s.
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I've got plenty of balls under my cups ???? I laugh to die hahahahahahahahahahahahaa
Good joke.
stephane_arnow
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I think you don't understand or don't know about the actual illusions, and there number (120). not the old forklift levitation.

Maybe many laymen forgot explanations, but if there is again and again exposures....You under-estimate them sometimes...I can give the exact contrary :

I asked a old friend (not seen since 10 years, we happy to meet him Smile ) and the FIRST thing he said me when he spoke about my career is : What do you think about the program on TM C ,with a man who explain the tricks ? I said : you know , it is old tricks and there is lot of mistakes. Magicians didn't do like this, or have far modern method totally different. and tricks is not important, only entertainment is important etc etc... He answers me : Maybe, but I know now how you did the last time I saw you when you cut the girl in 3, and when you was inside the crate (NB : 10 years ago ! Zig Zag, Mismade and subtrunk ). This guy don't work in show business. He is a good plumber... Maybe it is only 15 % of laymans who remember that, but it is too much.

I'm not sure that the petition is a good way. Contacting the sponsors is maybe better. What makes me mad is that the IBM consider that it is not a problem. The problem is that they let the door open to do what VAL want. And it is a shame.
haywire
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Contacting the sponsors is the only way to affect a change in the broadcast of these specials. Yes that may draw more attention to it, but really, after hearing about boycotts and the like most corporations would not want to advertise in the future, cutting off the source of funding from this and therefore ending his chance to have any future television shows.

Personally, I think its despicable that this low life second rate failed magician did these specials. I also think its despicable that people within our community, like snap illusions helped him do it by actually supplying a lot of the illusions he is using in these upcoming specials. I'd say a boycott of them for helping this idiot is REALLY a good idea.

Personally, I would never buy a product from them now, not that I would before since they seem to have a problem with making and selling ripoff illusions.

As far as what to say when people ask, I generally tell them there is 10 methods or ways of doing almost every trick, so when this idiot exposes one method, we magicians simply switch to another method. This is not exactly true but I think its better than letting people think they know the methods I personally use.

I wish someone who is on here, who is a lawyer would chime in about the possibility of a class action suit, both against Mr. Valentino and against the networks which broadcast this show. That would sure get their attention, and could force a legal means to stop the broadcast of this and future shows.

For those that don't know, a class action suit is when a large group of people get together and sue someone for damages. I think there is definitely a legal basis for this being possible in this case.

Its not as crazy as it sounds, and here is why...
As an example, lets say I have to stop using two illusions I paid 5,000$ for because Mr. Masked magician exposed them, making them useless. Next, I will have to buy two more illusions to fill that time in my show, costing me another 5,000$
that's 10,000$ I just lost due to this shows broadcast.

Now what if every magician similarly affected joined the class action suit for their damages, money lost and time/energy lost because they had to change their shows as a direct result of this shows broadcast ? I should not lose 5,000$ of my hard earned money that I invested in my props just because this failed magician chose this route to fame. Its not fair, and I am certainly losing money as a direct result of his actions.

Theoretically, they could be sued for millions and I'm pretty sure especially if it was a jury trial, they would lose. Just imagine a jury being told about this guy breaking his oath of secrecy. There is no denying what he is doing with this shows is certainly unethical. I think there is a very good legal basis for this being possible, and no jury in their right minds would disagree that magicians all
over the world are losing their time and money as a direct result of this show.

This mans unethical actions would be enough to turn any sane jury against him. He could not deny breaking his oath since he himself hypes that in his show. If say 500 to 3,000 magicians all got together and sued them, the amount of money they
could sue for (AND MOST PROBABLY WIN!) would be tremendous.

Hit em in the pocketbook, where it hurts, and this madness will most certainly end. This legal method would also set a precedent and insure that future fame seeking failed magicians will be too afraid of getting sued to do any similar show.
People can lose their assets, their cars, their homes after being sued for a great deal of money and losing. If this suit worked, no one would risk it in the future.

I do not agree with people who say simply ignore him and he will go away. that's what people said last time these shows came out. We ignored him, and he did go away,but only for awhile because now he's back and exposing many many more illusions than ever before. He will just keep doing this until we as magicians
do something to stop him.

Just my thoughts,

Steven
Matthew W
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Pepka,

You say that a petition will only attract more attention to it. How?!?! The petition does not name the show or the network.

This is not a petition directly against the show and to have it pulled. It is against the sponsors. The sponsors are the reasons it is still happening.

I am not holding a gun to your head telling you to sign it, it would be nice if you did, though. Sitting does not do anything but let it go on.

This is not only about the secrets. It is about careers and livelihoods that are being destroyed. These are people that have careers that can be seriously hurt in a half hour.

I doubt anyone, even you would go out and do a trick that was just exposed the night before.

Lets not let this happen to us. I don't want what I do to be looked at as a puzzle, or worse, a joke. I want it to stay as a form of entertainment.

Yeah I'm ****ed. Telling me I am wasting my time doesn't do anything to help.

-Matt

Also, people, stop making death threats and jokes. It will only cause trouble. It only makes us look bad. I don't want to see Valentino dead, I want to see the mask and exposure put to rest.
-Matt
pepka
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How could someone be sued for exposing a magic trick? Unless you signed a non-disclosure agreement when you purchased the prop, I believe you have every legal right to do whatever you want. And that includes going on TV and explaining how it works. Magicians already have a tough time copy-righting tricks, I seriously doubt a lawsuit aimed at exposure would go anywhere. The best way to fight this is improve your performance so that method is proven wrong, even if it's the same one exposed on TV.

There is a famous story told by Mike Skinner, (I believe.) He was working in a magic shop in the 70's during Henning's heyday. The day after a Henning TV special someone came in and wanted to purchase the trick Doug did, "The mystery of the silver rings." Mike asked him if he would like the 10" mystery or the 12" mystery. He made his purchase and did not want to pay for lessons. He returned a few days later and demanded a refund. He said these are like a kid's toy, some of them are welded together, and this one has a gap in it. "I wanted the mystery of the silver rings, like Doug Henning did." Mike apologized and gave him a full refund. Now do you get my point? The secret is nothing without a decent performance to back it up.
Matthew W
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Quote:
On 2008-09-08 07:02, pepka wrote:
How could someone be sued for exposing a magic trick? Unless you signed a non-disclosure agreement when you purchased the prop, I believe you have every legal right to do whatever you want. And that includes going on TV and explaining how it works. Magicians already have a tough time copy-righting tricks, I seriously doubt a lawsuit aimed at exposure would go anywhere. The best way to fight this is improve your performance so that method is proven wrong, even if it's the same one exposed on TV.

There is a famous story told by Mike Skinner, (I believe.) He was working in a magic shop in the 70's during Henning's heyday. The day after a Henning TV special someone came in and wanted to purchase the trick Doug did, "The mystery of the silver rings." Mike asked him if he would like the 10" mystery or the 12" mystery. He made his purchase and did not want to pay for lessons. He returned a few days later and demanded a refund. He said these are like a kid's toy, some of them are welded together, and this one has a gap in it. "I wanted the mystery of the silver rings, like Doug Henning did." Mike apologized and gave him a full refund. Now do you get my point? The secret is nothing without a decent performance to back it up.


Who said anything about suing? You did. I didn't. But you know what, if someone published McDonald's secret sauce, he or she would be sued. Whats the difference between sauce and illusion in this case? If you ask me, illusion would be worse. People will still enjoy the secret sauce, but the form of the illusion is changed from a piece of theatrical entertainment to a puzzle. The sauce is still a sauce.

Performance means nothing when an audience is going in wanting to bust you on your trick.

Quit arguing with me. You are telling me I said things that I didn't. And your ring story has nothing to do with performance, the kid in the story did not want to learn in the first place. He just wanted instant gratification.

Winning this war will be far from instant, it will take some time, but will be worth it.

This thread is about the petition. If you are not going to sign, to join in on the thread. This is about solving the problem, not hiding behind a stack of cups.

And yes, someone can be sued for exposing a magic trick. If it is patented you can sue. But most builders and designers don't want to do the community the favor of providing a little bit of protection.
-Matt
stephane_arnow
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Hi Haywire,

You say that Snap Illusions have built the props for the masked magician ?????? It is a big accusation, but..Is it real ? I know that his Assistant Revenge is a Snap Illusion builder, but I thought he had bought it somewhere (second hand maybe). Or maybe he gave a false identity or another name.

It can be interesting to know if SNAP knew or not when it has been build.
If SNAP owner knew, it is very absolutly ....I even don't find the word!
Amazing Magic Co
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I am quite confident that the sponsors have intellectual property within their own industries that they want protected. I don't believe they are aware that they are supporting programming the promotes the infringement of intellectual property.

Dan.
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