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j.i.s.
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I emailed to Bill Palmer and this is his answer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if this Masked Magician is Valentino. It could actually be a
different person in the same costume. However, no matter who it is, my
opinion of him is the same as it was when the first series ran about a dozen
years ago.

Actually, this series will be broadcast on Fox, just as the first one was.

There is NOTHING that we can do about it. PERIOD.

There is nothing illegal about it. It is unethical, but the only way the person
doing the work can be punished is to expel him from any magic club he
belongs to. If he isn't a member of any magic club, then there is nothing that
can be done.

I got involved in it last time. I wrote to the sponsors. I put up a web site. I
fought against it.

Now, I'm tired of it.

So -- YOU pick up the torch. YOU fight the fight.
Destiny
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Quote:
That sucks


Life sucks.

If you let it.

You can get bogged down in the negatives - or you can get on with the positives.

The Chinese say
Quote:
He who sits long enough by the water, will see his enemies body floating by.


I choose not to devote precious energy to fighting wars that can't be won, or to sit around waiting for the satisfaction of my opponents eventual assured demise, but to get out there and live my life.

When you decide to redevote your attention to your magic and move it beyond this clowns sad exposure of cliches, I would recommend 'Sometimes the Jokes are Just for Me' by Master Payne and 'How to Become a World Famous Magician' by Rudy Coby, two wonderful and complimentary works which will fireproof your performance against this pathetic mans pitiful endeavours.

Destiny
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-11 05:01, j.i.s. wrote:

Actually, this series will be broadcast on Fox, just as the first one was.



It's not on FOX, it's on MyNetworks which is the old unwatched remnants of the now defunct UPN channel
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
croman
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I'm mad/angry/sad/frustrated,....I don't know how to explain my moood today, but it's far from good.

I feel sick.

I just saw a commercial on mynetwork tv (i hope everyone on that channel dies)....

The Masked Magician is returning to TV with new episodes and new secrets :-( :-/

How can we stop this ??????

What can we do ??????

I feel soooo mad....
David Todd
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I'm in sympathy with a petition , but unless the petition has some leverage behind it , the network will ignore it . They don't care if 10,000 magicians are ****ed off . With no leverage the petition is just spitting in the wind . Public protests and petitions will only have the effect of drawing more attention to this show, which is what we don't want.

Better to target the network and the sponsors with real letters, (courteous, polite, but firm letters) , expressing disapproval and a commitment to boycott the network and it's sponsors and products unless they stop running the shows. If sponsors get enough letters from consumers who say they intend to no longer purchase the sponsor's products then that gets their attention. Companies live in mortal fear of alienating their customers and losing sales. That is what this is all about. They have to feel that it will have a negative financial impact on them. In the letter don't make it a big issue about you being a magician . Write as a member of the general public who is disappointed in how they are destroying the entertainment value of magic and say that you are disappointed that the company would sponsor this show and you will not longer be buying their products because of their association with show. And persuade all your friends and family to write similar letters . They need to hear from a lot of ordinary people, not just angry magicians. And stick to it. If you say you won't shop at Target or BestBuy or whoever sponsors these shows then follow through on it and really don't shop there anymore. Vote with your dollars. If Wendy's restaurant chain is a sponsor of this show then don't eat there anymore. Forever. (or until they agree to stop sponsoring these shows) . Let the local manager of the store know why you won't be shopping or eating there anymore. A boycott has no teeth, no leverage, if people don't commit to follow through on it. (I mean follow through for years , not just now while this is a hot-button issue. ) Does anyone in the magic community have the resolve to do that ?

Again, while I am in sympathy with the feelings and the goals behind a petition I also agree with those who have warned that creating a very public spectacle in protesting these shows only serves to draw more attention to these shows. The producers of the show will use lines like "This is the show that 10,000 MAGICIANS DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE ! What are they hiding ? Tune in tonight at 8:00 ... blah, blah, blah ...."

I admire the French magicians who have posted here that they were able to convince a Minister of Culture in France to get exposure shows pulled off of French TV , but we are unfortunately in a different situation here in the U.S.A. The French seem to place a much higher value on the arts and culture and preserving traditional aspects of the arts . I wish that my country (the U.S.A.) had a higher view of the arts, including magic, but the sad fact is that we don't. That's a longer term goal: change people's perceptions of magic by doing better magic. Make them see why it is something worth cherishing and preserving.
stephane_arnow
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1) hi David todd
the programm is on a cable TV (TMC ) ...So it can be watch in France and certainly in Belgium...So the fight has been won 10 years ago, but not completly. Actually, the programm is visible on TV . BUT not on the big nationals channels only... In the future , we never know...There is 2 big private TV ...

2) I understand the position of american magicians. I just fight the idea of ''nothing to do at all is the best'' ;that is too easy. But I can admit that petition will certainly create the '' This is the show that 10,000 MAGICIANS DON'T WANT YOU TO SEE ! What are they hiding ? Tune in tonight at 8:00 ... blah, blah, blah '', that you spoke.

Actually, someone can say me if someone is doing something about the sponsors, or it is only an idea ? If someone try actually to do something, who ? and WHO are those sponsors ?

Cause I repeat, american TV programms will be sold everywhere in the world. We are all in the same boat, Europe, Asia etc... And in 10 years, it will be the 20th season, and the M.....Magician(s)will attack close up bases,dove working with double productions and invisible Har...., general magic, street magic, brand new illusions just created etc... And maybe with more money, and better presentation than the actual clown... If it works and if there is audiance, it will never stop.
David Todd
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Quote:
On 2008-09-16 12:43, stephane_arnow wrote:

Actually, someone can say me if someone is doing something about the sponsors, or it is only an idea ? If someone try actually to do something, who ? and WHO are those sponsors ?

... If it works and if there is audiance, it will never stop.


I don't know the sponsors yet . If anyone has a list of the sponsors that would be good information to have so that people may privately contact the sponsors with respectful, well-reasoned, but firm letters expressing disappointment that they would sponsor shows which tear down the art of magic and negatively impact many other magicians . Sometimes the list of sponsors will not become apparent until after the shows start to air.

Quote:
"... If it works and if there is audiance, it will never stop."


Yes this is a good point. Where will it stop ? I don't agree with the attitude of some magicians who feel that just because they do not perform big illusions that they are somehow "safe" . There has previosly been at least one "Secrets of Street Magic REVEALED" show with a Masked Blaine surrogate revealing things like coin in bottle principle, invisible deck, the raven , and other standard close-up work. When Bruce Nash (creator and producer of MM) runs out of big illusions to expose , what next ? Anything goes, so watch out Mr. Close Up magician if you don't stand in unity with your Illusionist brothers now.

And the worst impact is not exposure of particular effects , because it is true that the public has short memories and will not remember specific details, but what they will remember are general principles like : base principle, BA , mirrors, deceptive steps, levitation principles , etc. Widespread airing of these principles strips mystery away from magic in general and gives the false impression to the lay audience that magic is all about mechanical devices.

The only answer may be that as Jim Steinmeyer opines: "Exposure is inherently boring" . So there is not a large continuing audience for these things. I hope he is correct, but I expect he may be simply whistling in the dark. If lay audiences find exposure to be inherently boring then why this new crop of MM shows being produced now ? Will Steinmeyer (who I greatly respect) feel differently if Interlude or Origami or Modern Art are among the 120 illusions that Nash and his Masked Monkey plan to expose this time around ?
Drew Manning
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As a business person, I find that the vast majority of customer threats of courses of action against my business are empty threats. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've been told I was going to be sued, reported to the BBB or have the attorney general called on me.

That never bothers me because in none of those situations have I done anything to warrant the action other than enforce my rights under the terms of a contract that I signed with a consumer. Most often, these threats come as a result of the consumer not being happy with me for holding their feet to the fire. My point is, most businesses aren't going to care what you threaten them with and on top of that, even if they notice a dip in their sales, they may not be able to make the connection between the shows and the loss of revenues.

Again, unless the show specifies that it was borugh to you by XZY Co (ie think Clorox Bleach and Copperfield in the 80s)it is quite likely that when the network runs the commercials, they are merely fulfilling an advertiser's order to run X number of spots between 7-11PM as part of a package deal. They don't get to choose as a general rule during what program their commericals will run. As a result, assuming that consumers weren't the fickle type that they are and they stuck to any boycott they set out on, they would be unfairly punishing an advertiser for merely buying TV time to promote a product.
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

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stephane_arnow
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And it is what will happened if a solution is not find !
A solution, maybe not to stop it , but to limit his possibilities and his money.

the builder and the second hand sellers need to be careful those days when they sell something... An agreement for using the prop , and not expose the method on TV and public. And sorry, but it should be like this : A contact between the buyer and the seller. If it the prop is exposed on TV, pursuit law will be engaged. And the buyer need to sign it. Of course, it can be work for second hand, but it is ok for new props. It should be signed (sorry) even by the real builders, AND by the ripp off builders. No matter. A SELLING = promise not to reveal it on TV, with a signature. For all builders of magic. Even the worse.

If this little principe can respected (I repeat even by the non ethical builders, cause they build magic props after all, we can say what we want , and it is another debat), the Masked clowns and his production (who certainly bought it for him) signed. So no respect = law suit possible. EVEN if it is not a real deal (copy of an effect build without permission), the law pursuit and the money won SHOULD go in the real creator if it is an effect not public domain. If it is a public domain illusion, pursuit can be done and money won go in the pocket of the builder.
It can be done with help of associations like IBM or associations in different country.

SO A TRICK SOLD or an ORDER of different tricks listed on the list , in same time as the invoice = agreement. If the trick is exposed on TV by the buyer = pursuit law

Can we use this method and contact all the magic builders ? how do you feel that idea ?
Payne
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So who is going to pay for all this? Will a fund be setup that all magicians have to pay into or is it the sole responsibility of the illusion seller to cover his legal expenses? Or will there just be an ant-exposure surcharge tacked on to the price of every trick. Who will then administer this fund and dole out the required payments to the lawyers?
Will these contracts be universal or can someone buy an illusion in England and expose it in America? What if the producers simply have the illusions built from scratch in their prop department? There are literally tons of old illusions sitting around in warehouses that wouldn't be covered by this agreement as well.
So really a plan such as this, while a noble effort, for the most part is completely unworkable.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
magicofCurtis
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Quote:
On 2008-09-16 17:02, Payne wrote:

So really a plan such as this, while a noble effort, for the most part is completely unworkable.


But it would be a START... Smile
Payne
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Quote:
On 2008-09-16 19:30, magicofCurtis wrote:

But it would be a START... Smile



Have fun with that then Smile

Getting magicians to agree on a tactic to fight exposure would be akin to herding kittens
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
stephane_arnow
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Payne I not totally agree with you.

1) Ok, as Curtis said, it can be a Start. I mean : since the day when aLL the magic stores and builders are ok with this principe,and sign for it, all new prop from a professionnal Magic house (but not the home made units of course) will be under this agreement. So it can be work. For pursuit law , it is easy to understand : The seller/builder/creator of the effect has the prove, by signature, that the buyer don't respect the agreement. So it can't loose in justice, and he can be help by association like IBM or association of magician around the world.

2) you said : who pay ?? No need to pay ! It is a paper that can be copied in 20 second with a copier, like a contact, and the seller make it sign in same time as the invoice. Even now with internet signature, it can be done by email easily !
Any magic store in the world can do that TOMORROW, and with pleasure cause they know the danger of the programm, and the loose the they business (illusions built explained = hard to sell !So they can do it ! I hope some builder here will read the post, for Example Jack Murray, Snap illusion, or who you want. The best or the worse , no matter. They sell magic : they make sign agreement even for Mouth coils or Gaffed card deck !and of course for illusions.

the problem: if the masked magi-bastar use the materiel from his producer ... it is the producer who can have law puirsuit.

by the way, I 'not sure that he will explain illusions not domain public, for example Windshare, cause I think pursuit laws can be done.Maybe I'm wrong this time... I think he is more devil than that : he make build junk illusions, near in the idea of the real , specially build to be explained. And for that, it is impossible to do something.
What he had done for example for the SQUEEZE BOX in the past is even not a ripp off. It is even not an illusion. Like a Ripp off of the worse ripp off possible lol.An the secret exposed was not real.

3) For the second hand props, the agreement (signed in the past by the ex-buyer now becomed : the seller) need to be sold with the illusion. So the signature of the new buyer need to be placed on the paper, and this condition need to be explained on the paper. The new buyer need follow the rules, and the second hand seller keep a photocopy of the paper for prove. If the seller recognize his illusion in a EXPOSURE TV programm, he can contact the builder or creator (if he is not out of business or dead of course; than...) . If the builder recognize his prop, he has the LEGAL rights to make law pursuits. For the money, the associations can help : He can't loose , a paper signed give the entire prove.

4) Some arrangement can be done between different creator or builder . When a builder want to go out of the business (problem financial, age or personnal choice) , the agreements signed can be given to another one.

for example : CREATIVE MAGIC one day wants to stop his activity. He has build lot of SQUARE CUBES and SHADOW TENTS. He give the agreements to ABOTTS (not the rights ! only the agreement) . Lots unit have been built and sold with this agreement.
One day, the Bastar d magician films and expose the secret of this illusion. ABOTTS has full power to attack him and pursuit are possible. Builder need to work together the day they want stop their business.
stephane_arnow
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Sorry for the faults, I wrote quick lol
magicofCurtis
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Well,
Be the change you see....

Next time you sell one of your props have a signed agreement stating it will not be exposed.....

I know at least one of the big illusion builders has this in their contract already.... WINK
stephane_arnow
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Hi Curtis
If all the builders, little or big, good and even bad make sign some agreements, it can be a excellent way to limit exposure in the future. Maybe diffuse the infirmation around the dealers can be good. Not sure that the masked M(s) will buy to this big builder. Every magic store should use those type of agreement, I think.
I give the idea. Now ...
Drew Manning
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I'm with Payne on this.

The builder or creator would have to bear the costs of litigation for thing. Secondly, to be successful in a breach of contract suit, the builder would have to show actual damages suffered as a result of the agreement being broken. If the builed is still averaging the same number of sales he did before the exposure on a particular effect, he will have trouble showing damages.
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
stephane_arnow
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I need thinking about that... The damage is the fact that a man expose the secret, and the possible futures buyers will not buy the prop, of fear to have audiance in the known. So it is a commercial dommage, first point, and a simple not respect of the rules signed for any magic trick bought. I need admit that I'm not jurist, but to my point of view the dommage is easy to argument. and the prove is on paper. It is a contract brocken by the exposer. I doubt that lot of magician will build an Assistant Revenge this year and next year. They will wait that people forget a little... For certain effect, Zig Zag for example, I can see that less magician present it now in my country, and I remember a french one which has removed it from his programm, because of the exposure (in the period of the diffusion on the TV cable). Is is not enough to prove the commercial injury ?
Magicque
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Stéphane, some magicians here really think it even helps us!!! They are idiots...
magicnewswire
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I tend to agree with Eugene Burger's comments in our interview with him. There is more meaningful exposure in the improper performance of magic than was ever contained in the Masked Magician specials. In spite of that, it is worth noting that the new show which begins this season is an all new weekly show one hour in length, not reruns of the original. You can see a video clip HERE
Dodd Vickers

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