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Donal Chayce
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I'm looking for a good wood craftsman to make a small sand frame for me. I need it to hold a "wallet size" photo (2.5" x 3.5"), and I want it to look as much like a normal picture frame as possible (I've got a couple of ideas in that regard). I'm open to the type of wood that's used, but I'd like it to look elegant.

Is anyone interested in taking on this project? If so, please PM me.

Thanks.
Spellbinder
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I found the perfect frame in a Dollar Store recently.

Image


It holds a photo 4.5 cm by 6.5 cm. It would be tough to convert to a sand frame, but a flap frame is an easy alternative.
Professor Spellbinder

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Donal Chayce
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Thanks for the suggestion. I considered using a flap early on, but it's not a clean enough method for what I needed to have happen. I've been using a cheap plastic sand frame that I silver leafed to make it look less like a prop (or a toy) and more like a real frame, but that's been a temporary solution at best. Fortunately, a couple of days ago I was able to score a vintage Tenyo sand frame from the 1940s at auction. It's made of wood and glass, and while it's a little plain in appearance at least it looks like a real photo frame.

Thanks again--your response is very much appreciated.
Michael Baker
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I make two other kinds of card frames (flap style and ungimmicked), and have considered making some sand frames. What were your ideas to make the frame look normal? I walk through any picture frame display and the varieties are vast.
~michael baker
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The Magic Ref
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Is there a good source that explains the workings of a sand frame?
Be Young...Have Fun!
Michael Baker
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Quote:
On 2008-09-14 16:39, The Magic Ref wrote:
Is there a good source that explains the workings of a sand frame?


"More Magic" - by Prof. Hoffmann

The Amateur Magician's Handbook" and "Cyclopedia of Magic" - both by Henry Hay

I have also seen a description with illustration, but cannot put my finger on what book that was.
~michael baker
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lin
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Was it

_Magic: Stage Illusions and Scientific Diversions_ by Albert A. Hopkins?

I have one more reference with a picture from an article which originally appeared around the 1920's in Popular Mechanics for Boys (or something like that). I'll happily pm anyone who's interested.

cheers,

Lin
Donal Chayce
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Quote:
On 2008-09-14 00:28, Michael Baker wrote:
I make two other kinds of card frames (flap style and ungimmicked), and have considered making some sand frames. What were your ideas to make the frame look normal? I walk through any picture frame display and the varieties are vast.


Well, most significantly I'd like only the first 1/3 or so of the face of the frame to be flat, with the rest beveled in toward the glass. IMO, that makes for a more deceptive prop, and is how the inexpensive plastic frames I've seen are designed. On the other hand, all of the the small wood frames I've seen, including the vintage Tenyo frame I purchased, are virtually entirely flat and, as a result, somewhat suspicious in appearance.

Here are a couple of links to illustrate what I mean:

http://www.emagictricks.co.uk/Sand_Frame_Boxed.html

http://www.tenyoworld.co.uk/raretenyo.htm

http://www.thetrickery.com/full/Magic-Tr......8199.htm

I've got a couple of other ideas with respect to the type of wood that's used, the finish and other decoration (e.g., perhaps a small marquetry border).

Even though I purchased the Tenyo frame, I'm still interested in having a smaller frame made. Would you be willing to take on the project?
Michael Baker
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I can play with it, but no promises. The space has to obtained somewhere. Bevelling in toward the center means that the frame will need to be thicker at the outer edge, or wider overall.
~michael baker
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Donal Chayce
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Thanks! Smile

I'll be happy to send you one of the plastic frames (I've got a few of them) if you think that would be helpful.
Michael Baker
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No, don't worry about that. I think I pretty much know the kind of look you're shooting for.
~michael baker
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Donal Chayce
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Okay, great. I'll eagerly look forward to hearing from you.
Donal Chayce
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Michael, during lunch today I visited a frame store to take a look at some "real" frames of this approximate size. Based on what I saw, I think the bevel could be as much as 1/2 the width of the frame and still be more deceptive than a flat frame; e.g., if each side of the frame is 1.5", the bevel could be 3/4" and the flat part could be 3/4". Does that help your thickness concern?
Michael Baker
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Everything is going to hinge on the volume of sand that needs to be held. The general recommendation is 1/8" between glass panels, but that is assuming the sand is of a certain coarseness (or fineness, as the case may be).

A finer grade may run in less space, and that would decrease the volume needed. It also may help to bevel the edges of the glass at the point of entry (exit). One concern is that going too fine, and the sand will act more like powder and clump. It acts a bit like water, creating it's own surface tension. It needs individual grain weight to run properly, depending on the space it must run through. You don't want to have to tap it at any time.

I have one idea that might work, but I won't know until I have a chance to make some sawdust and see. I have a few other projects pressing at the moment, but I'll get this worked in.
~michael baker
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Donal Chayce
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Thanks again. If I can help with scouting out the proper kind of sand, lust let me know.
Michael Baker
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I'm actually going to try model railroad ballast. It comes in different grades and different shades.
~michael baker
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The Magic Ref
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Thank you for the info. I have both of those books, I'll take a look.
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cupsandballsmagic
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Michael, have you considered the "magic sand" you can buy from toy shops (if you can get the correct colour) as it wont be affected by moisture and is very, very fine....

Just a thought if it is of any help...
Bri
Michael Baker
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Bri,

I appreciate the suggestion. I actually was not aware of that product, but will certainly check it out. At the moment, I'm trying to finish up some time-sensitive orders, before I'll have time to play with this. (It's also a very busy show season.)

~michael
~michael baker
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cupsandballsmagic
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Michael,
You are most welcome, I am enjoying reading the posts. I am fascinated with sand frames since reading about them as a kid.

You can find out a little more about the sande here:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-1id-gHQjbs

Bri
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