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Nicodemus Special user 644 Posts |
With the definition that Bob Cassidy brought to the term 'Meta Effects' ... being one that involves all or a large portion of the audience..
What effects would you consider 'Meta Effects' usable for an OPENER... example being Cassidy's 'Chronlog' ... Thoughts..? - Nicodemus
" Res Non Verba "
" Deeds Not Words " |
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nboisen Loyal user 289 Posts |
Why do you consider Chronologue a meta effeect involve "all or a large portio of the audience"? While everyone is an spectator to the event, only one person actually participates, selecting a date and checking what is written on that date?
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Bill Cushman Inner circle Florida 2876 Posts |
Hi Nicodemus! It has been a long time since I've read you. And from my perspective, you ask a very good question.
If memory serves me, you are referring to what Bob Cassidy calls a "major effect" of mentalism. A lot of whole audience openers such as psychological forces, pseudo-hyp effects and visual and verbal illusions fall into this category. Kreskin was known to do his Q & A as an opener. Isn't that crazy? I mentioned "from my perspective" above. What I meant by that is I have just put up for pre-release sale my latest ebook called "The Fource." All of the effects are designed to involve the entire audience though some can play for audiences of one. Some can play in an arena. Most can be played both large and small, leaving you a wide range of options. Some of the best minds of our generation have stepped up to contribute their ideas and routines. These include Larry Becker, Millard Longman, Tony Razzano, Alain Nu, Rick Roth, Greg Arce, Dominic Twose, Julian “Bev” Moore, Enrique Enriquez, Jerome Finley, Alexandre, Lior Manor, Christopher Taylor, Bryn Reynolds and Sean Waters. The focus of The Fource covers two areas. The first is exactly what we have been talking about, routines designed to engage the entire audience. Many work as openers as you asked about. For example, Tony Razzano shares a wonderful routine where he finds a very affordable way to provide the entire audience with pendulums. Laughter and learning both occur. And, as a nice side effect, the event gets people interacting with one another. People have fun with this and it is perfect for psychic parties, house, graduation and dinner parties. Lior Manor shares a simple prediction effect that works very well in the corporate environment that he specializes in. In it he teaches how to use numbers and themes that are meaningful to the company that has hired you. Lior is a master of applying such techniques to engage the audience and get points important to the company across, setting the tone for things to come. The Fource itself is the melding of old methods to create a new method that has been referred to as “exponentially more powerful than its predecessors.” The typical response upon reading the original routine was exemplified by Greg Arce’s statement: “You mean I had the ability to do this all the time and I never thought of it!? What was I thinking?” I don't mean to do an ad, Nic. The timing of your question, not having seen your name in a long while and having something that meets the needs you expressed just seemed to good an opportunity to pass up. Plus I hope the things that I shared will inspire others to do likewise. |
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nboisen Loyal user 289 Posts |
Bill,
Sounds very interesting. When and where will "Fource" be available? (Two important pieces of information you left out of your non-ad ad). N |
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LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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parmenion Inner circle Switzerland/Zürich 3988 Posts |
Karmilovitvch has this kind of effect in "no prop comedy act"
Bruce Bernstein has also a very nice opener effect in "perception is everything"
“I love talking about nothing. It is the only thing I know anything about.”
<BR>Oscar Wilde experimentaliste <br> <BR>Artist pickpocket Professional <BR> <BR>Looking for the best book test in French? send me a PM! |
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mindhunter Inner circle Upstate NY 2280 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-15 03:04, Bill Cushman wrote: Bill: I'm not sure if it is DESERVED, but I certainly APPRECIATE you putting me on such a list! Bryn
Bryn D. Reynolds, Author of:
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls" Mentalism ebooks - PM any interest. My artwork: https://darkmountainarts.com |
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Nicodemus Special user 644 Posts |
The reason I mention Chronolog as a Meta effect is because that is the way Bob Cassidy describes it on his tape...
And as always Dr. Bill.. well thought out and I will certainly look into The Fource... thank you. Have a fundraiser event coming up.. and was just looking for opener ideas which involves much of the audience... does not require anyone to come on stage... and is not heavy mentalism. Trying to design the evening with more fun in mind.. versus deep thought ... Example of what I mean would be in Sean Taylors EXCELLENT book his 'Persuasive Bank Night' ...or Beckers 'Sneak Thief' merged with Mr. Hyde's 'The Pig Test'. Ultimately I would like to cast more spotlight on my guests enjoying themselves and being entertained than displaying myself. IMHO, - Nicodemus
" Res Non Verba "
" Deeds Not Words " |
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Matthew Townsend Inner circle 1302 Posts |
I sometimes use Kolossal Killer as an opener. I have a deck of cars in my hand and get people to call out reds or blacks, the suits, odds & evens, Pictures or numbers and throw the cards they don't want above my head behind me and keep doing this until there is just one card left.
I then pick up my wallet which has been on the table the entire time and produce the card they chose. With a bit of sneaky equivocation I sometimes have a "special" envelope on the table and take out the "only" card instead of from my wallet. I like it cos the throwing of cards (if done in a "im not bothered" manner) gets a laugh and it gets the card effect out of the way so to speak. (Not that I don't like card effects but I prefer to do them early on in the set) Peace & Love Matt |
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Chris K Inner circle 2544 Posts |
Personally, one of the one's I like to use is a variation of Lior Manor's Mobile Opener. The fact that Lior is contributing to Bill's stuff is simply another reason to get The Fource.
L |
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Lior Inner circle 1961 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-15 15:07, Lemniscate wrote: Thanks for yor kind words Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
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Suffolk Veteran user 400 Posts |
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On 2008-09-15 14:15, Matthew Shepherd wrote: What size/type venues/audiences do you play Matt? I would personally find KK far too small for a stage show – Normal sized cards can’t be seen from the back of the room and a wallet with jumbo cards…? I also like my openers to be fast and snappy - Especially for corporate audiences which is, by number of gigs at least, where most of my income comes from where you are competing with free booze and the opportunity to chat up that co-worker you’ve fancied all year. It’s different when people have paid *actual money* to buy a ticket to see *you* and while I do a fair few ticketed public shows a year I still “open fast” because I want to “pick them up and take them with me” rather than “have them follow” I do open with a meta effect of my own but not one I’ll be tipping here I’m afraid because it’s taken me far too long to refine it and while I am happy to sell/pass on some of my work this is my full-time "I don’t make any other money *any* other way" job and it’s one of my acts USP’s so I'd literialy be taking food out of my families mouths if I did. On the other hand, if that’s the effect you want and you are happy with that pace Marc Paul has an effect with a jumbo I.D. in his lecture notes which tick all the boxes. Doug |
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Suffolk Veteran user 400 Posts |
BTW Liors mobile opener is not only a great opener it's the best effect to use in a "conference hosting" situation I have in my arsenal - probably that I've ever seen.
I have made a *lot* of money from that routine. |
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nboisen Loyal user 289 Posts |
Nicodemus,
I have just sent you via PM a list and full description (Effect) for more than a dozen highly participatory routines that I use in my international training seminars -- routines that aim at maximizing audience involvement while possessing an explicit thematic tie-in with the overall theme of the training seminar. The emphasis is on entertainment and not the display of the performer's powers. I hope you find the list useful and that it helps spark some ideas for your own shows. Enjoy. Regards, Neil |
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jiggyjer Loyal user 215 Posts |
Can someone please explain the term meta-effect to me as it might apply to mentalism???
I would like to point out that I have not read Mr. Cassidy's work on the subject, though I do admire a lot of his thinking. I would however like to comment on the use of the prefix "meta" as it has been used in this post as I think it points to a gap in thinking about magic theory. I have always felt that often times, thinking about magic performance theory has lagged behind the theoretical schools of thought for other art forms. Many magicians seem to bumble their way through this aspect of our art form, not paying attention to what other discipline's have to say on the subject. Our theoretical language is sadly undeveloped in my opinion. What it really comes down to in my opinion is selling ourselves short and not treating our art form as seriously as artists in other fields treat theirs. I have always thought that magical performance is divided into two components; the craft of magic and the art of performance. The CRAFT OF MAGIC consists of all the technical skill, engineering, design etc... that goes into creating an effect, and the ART OF PERFORMANCE revolves around (obviously) the performance of the magician. As magicians we focus too much on our craft (practicing double lifts, centre tears, illusion design etc..) and not enough on our performance. I've always been curious as to why more magicians don't read up on acting or theatre performance theory since there is a rich vocabulary and collection of performance theory already in place for us to make use of!!! After all, the spinning gears and cogs of our effects are just craft. PERFORMANCE IS OUR ART! As Robert Houdin said; we are actors playing the role of "Magician". As actors, we should have a stronger theoretical foundation when it comes to the art form of theatre. How can we hope to build a truly comprehensive theory of magic if we aren't even familiar with the canon of theatrical thinking which already exists??? So....where is this all going you may ask?? In my opinion (as always you should feel free to disagree) the term meta has been misused here, as it already has meaning within the canon of theoretical performance theory. It should not denote a large effect that involves the whole audience, or an effect that uses a whole bunch of methods or psychological forces, or verbal manipulation etc... The prefix "Meta" refers to something that is of a higher or second order (oxford dictionary). Think "MET-PHYSICS" or "META-FICTION" In performance theory it is closely related to Roland Barthes idea of MYTH (an object or sign divested of its original meaning and replaced with a new second level meaning), and is often used when refering to works of art that comment on them selves or point to thier own artificiality. Think for example of the theatre of Brecht or the films of Goddard or Velasquez's "Las Meninas" where the artist includes himself in the painting. The term "META" in works of art often refers to a certain self awareness in art and often seeks to create a more active rather than passive spectatorship. In other words the spectator is purposefully made to be aware that what they are viewing is artifice. Suddenly (for those of you who are students of Plato) we are made to be aware that the shadows on the cave wall are just that, shadows, and not the true forms. Think of the film shot which suddenly or purposefully pulls back to reveal the film set crews and cameras, breaking the illusion of reality and creating a new second level or meta-reality for the viewer. Think of Charlie Kaufman writing himself into his own screen play in "Adaptation" Or for those of you that are fans, think of the Family Guy episode where Peter makes a joke about his own senseless flashbacks, or Wayne and Garth waving their hands up and down shouting "do da lee doo, do da lee do" mocking the squigly transition to a flashback in Wayne's World-- hence the term "META-HUMOUR" (it's real...look it up) So, this begs the question, can the term be made to apply to the performance of magic? I think so. Can an effect be a META-EFFECT (point to its own artificiality) and still be magical? Tricky but still possible in my opinion. Remember, it has to be "META" for the spectator, not for the magician, as the above posts on methods would seem to imply. I offer the following example: Early on (1st season I think) in Derren Brown's televised series he did an effect where he sat a girl down and put a fork in her hand and caused her to see the fork as bending. Here's the rub, the fork never actually bent. She just hallucinated it (if you believe the patter). Hallucination alone I would argue does not constitute a meta effect. BUT considered from the spectators (read tv audience's point of view) I would argue that it's getting there. For an audience which is probably familiar with spoon bending (uri gellar has been referred to in a fair bit of popular culture) and definately familiar with the film THE MATRIX for the most part, I would argue that this bit of performance verges on the "META" while still being magical. Brown succeeds in creating a spoon bending effect which itself comments on the effect of bending spoons. Fascinating. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Like I said. Haven't read Bob Cassidy on the subject so if he's covered all this or has been quoted incorrectly then my appologies because this is time that you could have used better by poking yourself in the leg with a stick ;-) |
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Suffolk Veteran user 400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-16 06:48, jiggyjer wrote: I think I'm in love |
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nboisen Loyal user 289 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-16 06:48, jiggyjer wrote: Dear jiggyjer, First, we all owe you a debt of gratitude for the brief moment of relief from that pain in the leg while we stopped poking to read your post. Thank you. Second, your allusions to Plato, Barthe, Brecht, Goddard, Velasquez and Wayne's World aside, you make two valid points: (1) that the literature dedicated to the performance side of mentalism is far exceeded in volume and depth by the number of works dedicated to technique, and (2) that many aspiring mentialists focus primarily on what you term the craft and insufficiently on the art. However, I would contend that: (1) There is a growing number of works dedicated to the performance side of magic and mentalism, starting with the Fitzke trilogy, right on up through such recent works as Darwin Oritz's "Strong Magic," Ken Weber’s “Maximum Entertainment” and Pete McCabe's "Scripting Magic" to name but a few. Certainly less copious and perhaps less philosophically grounded than the corresponding literature pertaining to theatre, but it's a good start. (2) The top-notch, seasoned professionals DO pay attention to the performance side and it is precisely this close attention which distinguishes them from the non-professional and contributes to their success. But all of this is beside the point, because your initial point of contention – that the word “meta” is being misused in its application to mental effects with a high level of participation – appears to be a misquote. Check Bill Cushman’s post above: “If memory serves me, you are referring to what Bob Cassidy calls a "major effect" of mentalism. But thanks to that misquote, we all got to enjoy some interesting and stimulating comments from you and a short respite from poking our legs. Thanks for both! Neil |
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Nicodemus Special user 644 Posts |
Doug...You mentioned ...Marc Paul has an effect with a jumbo I.D. in his lecture notes...
do you happen to know if Marc Paul's lectures notes are still available or where? TIA -- Nicodemus
" Res Non Verba "
" Deeds Not Words " |
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jiggyjer Loyal user 215 Posts |
Thanks for clearing that up Niel. I agree with you wholehearedly when you say that thinking about performance theory is one of the factors that separates a top performer from the crowd. I also agree that there are magicians that have done excellent work on the subject, however I still believe that magical performance theory is still in it's infancy.
My appologies for misquoting Cassidy. Finally, if the term META-EFFECT or META-MAGIC has not yet been coined then allow me to be the first. Another example: Penn and Teller doing the cups and balls with clear plastic cups. Thanks for reading. |
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nboisen Loyal user 289 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-16 15:39, jiggyjer wrote: I don't know if you are the first, but Penn & Teller's cups and balls seems like a good example. What about just a simple "Magician vs. Gambler" type of effect? |
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