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impossible man Elite user 403 Posts |
I have had a request for a quote for performing a few bits MC-style. In other words, I will be in front of 500 people, 5-minutes per time, 3 times, between other acts. But I won't be doing intros or segues as far as I know.
How should I set a rate, based on a percentage of my normal hour price? It's a quarter hour, should it be 25%? Or more? And why? Thanks! |
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Bridgewater Regular user North Carolina 184 Posts |
If it is a one-hour show, you should charge your one-hour fee whether you are on stage for the entire hour or only for a few minutes. The time in between MC bits is hardly your own, you are working even if you aren't on stage and you should expect compensation for it.
I find I wind up doing more work at these types of events than if I were doing my standard show. Ask for full price.
"Don't run with those..."
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impossible man Elite user 403 Posts |
Geez, I never knew it was like that.
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Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
You are selling dates on a calendar. When you take the MC booking, you lose the ability to accept another engagement at the same date/time, so you should get your full fee for an engagement.
Jim |
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Lyndel Inner circle wrote the theme to the TV show COPS! 1623 Posts |
I concur with Bridgewater and Jim. Get your full price.
Lyndel |
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Neale Bacon Inner circle Burnaby BC Canada 1775 Posts |
Yep - I agree. You are there the whole time and unable to take other work so they need to pay for your time.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist www.baconandfriends.com |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I agree as well. For me it comes down to the old phrase... "time is money!". You are giving up a certain date and amount of time on that date to do the gig. I would charge my full rate according to that time that I am away doing the event. The main point is that from a certain time to another certain time, you will not be able to book anything else. So even though you may only be on sage a short amount of time, you are in essence giving them say 2 hours of your time (driving there, load in, set up, performance, break down, load out, drive home etc.) Hope this helps.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
I agree with they gang as well…
You are being rewarded for the VALUE you create, NOT how many tricks (or what-ever) you are doing as well as the FACT that they are also buying your TIME, Talent & Treasure in that you are no-longer available to help anyone else at that time, so YOU SHOULD be compensated for the time they want from you… it’s not your fault they only want you to “EmCee” at this time, and not take advantage of your whole show offerings… you are there and can’t be booked during that time, they should pay you for your total “appearance”. BUT, it’s your business… do what you think is right with that relationship. I am at your service and in HIS Service, Deano (gets paid) in Reno <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Well, here goes....I disagree with the others. You do not go for your full 1 hour rate for emceeing.
Emceeing does not require you to lug in an entire 1 hour stage show and part of your 1 hour fee is for the "lugging." Never mind trying to educate the paying public one client at a time. Concern yourself with what is going to make the most for you. I would recommend that you consider charging 1/2 to 2/3 of your regular show fee for the emcee position. 25% as you suggested would be too low considering that there are still travel costs involved. As to the other advice given, I don't have a course that I can promote like Jim and the Dean (both undoublty fine and honest gentlemen offering their expert opinions here for free) but I do have close to 30 years experience at this game including regularly performing in and doing the booking for these types of shows. Most of the performers using the Café are not busy enough to have to worry about a double booking coming in and they are happy just to get a gig. So, unless Mr. Gilbert, you are extremely busy, you don't have to worry about that. Next, let me address the idea of being compensated for the time you are there. In most budgets to put together this type of show, the money is allocated for the different acts. I can almost guarantee that the emcee is going to have less allocated for their position than someone hired to do a complete act by the company that has hired you. So asking for the complete 1 hour amount may just bounce you out of contention and someone else is hired to do the job because the money just isn't there to pay you that much. So, you wanted to know what we think and why, there's my thoughts. |
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Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
I would agree with RJE if I were selling a commodity. Then I would have to cut my fee because I would be competing on price. If the client just wants a body to fill a slot, then I'm probably not the right person for the job. But this is show business and I'm selling me. If the client doesn't see the value I offer, then I need to improve my marketing pitch.
Furthermore, if my marketing focus is on props and equipment, than the observation that "Emceeing does not require you to lug in an entire 1 hour stage show and part of your 1 hour fee is for the "lugging" would apply. Once again, that puts you in the category of a commodity. Are they buying a truckload of equipment with a cookie cutter magician pushing the boxes around, or are they buying a unique performer? I never want to be perceived as a body filling a slot. Granted, the budget may not be there for your full fee. If you want the show and are willing to cut your fee, just have a solid reason. Perhaps it is to get experience as an emcee, or to establish a relationship with a new agent (be careful cutting your fee for that reason), or to showcase your talent as an emcee to other potential clients, or to get a video demo, etc. But don't cut your fee because you are "doing less." A good emcee will work as hard or harder than any of the acts. Jim |
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impossible man Elite user 403 Posts |
I must admit, that although I have had clients take me aside and recommend I charge more (yes, I took their advice) in this case I may be offered the job sight unseen, because of connections. Yet I don't want my price to be too low, a good, worthwhile rate conveys confidence and makes a good impression.
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impossible man Elite user 403 Posts |
Oh, and yes I do sometimes have to worry about double booking situations, just occasionally.
I am getting to the point where I am selling myself as a specific entertainer now, also. It's just been a long road to being good enough and then realizing it. |
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MrHyde Special user 810 Posts |
Well, I'll have to disagree with everyone here...
I think you should charge MORE than your normal fee. Just another way of looking at your value to the client. |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Jim,
You make some good points. I recommend that you never cut your fee to impress a new agent. This usually only encourages the agent to continue booking you at the reduced rate and take a higher percentage for themselves. Next, I agree, we are selling ourselves, our talent, our experience etc... and, I know that a good emcee is very integral to a good show. But, I would also say that for the vast majority of performing magicians, like it or not, we are "commodities" in the client's eyes. Oh sure, someone might have seen us perform and said to themselves, "Oh, this guy would be great at our next conference, dinner meeting banquet etc....we HAVE to have him." And yes, it is possible that we have achieved a certain status through hard work with our peers, some agents, and a list of clients. It may even be that we are a local celebrity of sorts. Still, to the greater public, we are still just "cookie cutters" filling a spot with our props and patter. The difference might be the fee that we demand. Some would be estatic to get $500.00 for a show. Others wouldn't leave their house for less than a $1000.00. And yet others may command more, much more. Yet the vast majority of us work in true obscurity. Our talent may be undeniable. We may excel above and beyond any competitor or peer in our field. But, the reality is, the general public beyond knows not that we even exist. I love Mac King, Kohl and Co., John and Pam Thompson, Lance Burton, Jeff McBride and many other notables in magic. But, if you were to ask the average person on the street who these people were, most would not have a clue. Look at some of the stars in our business that have opened themselves up to public ridicule on America's Got Talent. "Why," many magicians ask themselves would they do it? Was it not to possibly gain a higher profile to move up the pay scale and to open more doors. If these stars of magic are unknown to the public, then what chance has the hard working road warrior magician? So, my advice to Mr. Gilbert (sounds formal, but if I just said Dean, then it may be confused with "The Dean") is to know your value in your market and work with that. Also, consider the budget or ability to pay of any prospective client. Meaning, your value may fluctuate accordingly. Specifically, you may need to ask for less being an emcee as opposed to a featured act. Good luck to you Dean (Gilbert) |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Good stuff guys... and I even agree with Timothy, create MORE value and get rewarded accordingly.
Also agree with what Jim points out (yeah, big surprise there…) we don’t get paid to “lug stuff around”, IF that were true, us trade show and corporate trainer/speaker guys would make a whole bunch less than the banquet or kids show performer and that is NOT the case by n’ large… again, it is NOT about the tricks we do or the stuff we carry around! It is ALL about the real VALUE we create for your buying re-elationship and THAT is often determined by you, your personal belief, your marketing and them… it’s a tag-team deal. (To over-simplify it… hehehehe!) Again, I will say: (From My other post) Quote:
DEAN: - "BUT, it’s your business… do what you think is right with that relationship." I am the biggest fan of what supports the best interest of ALL parties involved including you AND your "Re-Elationship", so just DO the right thing for you and your re-elationship and all will be fine! SERVE your way to success! I am. As always, at your service and In HIS Service, Dean <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
You sure do get paid for the lugging! It's all relative.
Dean, you are a wise debator and often offer good advice, but I would say that your kid's shows to corporate example is apple to oranges and not relative to this discussion. In their own arenas, the arguement is of course valid. But we're not talking about that here. If you are being hired to perform a trade show or walk around event, then you are paid according to your market value, based on your reputation, client budget and any number of factors. Of course. If you are being hired as part of an overall show, (emcee, illusionist, juggler etc...) then you are paid for your market value as well. However, the reality is that the market value of the emcee would be relatively less than the illusionist in most instances. Usually the only factor that might change this would be if the emcee has a much higher market value than any other act on the program. In this example, the emcee may well be the highest paid member of the show. Another possibility may have all the performers recognized as having equal market value. In this instance too, the emcee could be paid on par with the other performers. But, when it comes down to it, most variety shows or other programs in which most of us find ourselves emceeing, we will most often find ourselves using a different, usually less, pay scale, then if we were performing a full act in the show. So, Mr. Gilbert, determine your market value for the show and ask for a price accordingly. And, I wish you all, all the best. |
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Jim Snack Inner circle 1338 Posts |
Now I think RJE has hit the nail a bit more squarely.
While it comes down to market value, I would add that that your are paid according to your perceived value - people will pay you what they think you are worth. The key to getting paid more is to raise your perceived value. As RJE points out, "Usually the only factor that might change this would be if the emcee has a much higher market value than any other act on the program. In this example, the emcee may well be the highest paid member of the show." You can raise your perceived value by giving more service, for example, writing customized material for the event, Better yet, raise your perceived value by becoming a real attraction that can draw people to the event. Become well known, put bodies into seats and you will be paid accordingly. Jim |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I always say that I charge $XXX to get my butt off of the couch, so three 5 minute sets is the same fee as a 45 minute show. You look at it as three 5 minute performances, but I look at it as two hours out of your schedule.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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TheDean Inner circle Reno, Nevada 2164 Posts |
Well spoke guys...
To be clear, I am only offering a perspective here on what I KNOW to be true for myself an the others I have worked with over the years. YES, of course, your mileage may vary and I am NOT trying to MAKE anyone think and behave the way I do… that would be silly. You can charge and value yourself ANY way “you” want to… that is life as well as our respective mindsets, and you are each welcome to them… I ONLY wish you each the very BEST that life and success has to offer. Robert, apologize, I may have mis-spoke out of context with regards to the “Birthday Party Professional”, but the principle still hold up properly with the banquet pro I also mentioned… Like brother Al and the rest of the guys here, my time, talent and treasure is WORTH Something and it is NOT dictated by the “tricks I do” or the amount of stuff I “lug around”. I make Way MORE NOW in my career with a WHOLE BUNCH LESS STUFF, (Hey, even less shows… by design) and I have toured around the world with a multi-bus n’ truck illusion show, performed with a BIG SHOW in top casino showrooms and so on… It ONLY matters if “YOU” (The respective YOU… no one in particular…) allow it to matter! That is the mindset thing I keep referring to. You (again, each of you) may each agree or disagree… dandy. THAT is a very “personal” choice, but you will notice that most of the full-timers here understand the power of this mindset and value their time, talent and treasure. I have invested over a million dollars into my career as a performer/presenter and performed WELL OVER 25,000 live paid performances and I PERSONALLY CHOOSE to add value for my buying relationships and respectively be “well rewarded” for the real value I create. Each are welcome to believe and behave as each see fit for them… fair? Hey, I WANT you all to be as successful as you desire to be! I am NOT calling anyone else wrong in any way, shape or form… NOT by a long shot! (all of) You are welcome to your income and lifestyle each respectively, JUST sharing my insights and experiences based on real results is all… OK, let's look at (all corporate) the fees between: (Since I have done each and can speak based on real world experience) = Speaker/Trainer = Hypnotist = Mentalist/Mind Show = Trade Show = Hospitality = Banquet Performer = Illusionist ...all fair and all apples, OK? I will only speak to my experience and to what I know to be true… ok? = Speaker/Trainer LOTS MORE Money, LESS Lugging, LOTS of VALUE = Hypnotist LOTS MORE Money, LESS Lugging, usually more perceived VALUE = EmCee More/Equal Money for virtually ZERO Lugging and hardly any on-stage work. = Mentalist/Mind Show Equal Money, LESS Lugging = Trade Show LOTS MORE Money, LESS Lugging, LOTS of VALUE = Hospitality Depending on the market… and the marketer, MORE Money, LESS Lugging, LOTS of VALUE = Banquet Performer LESS Money, MORE Lugging = Illusionist More money (paycheck wise… BUT) about the same Money, especially for all the extra Lugging, investments, time, paying others… etc ...all fair and all apples, OK? I think that this is a VERY Valuable conversation for us to have again cuz any time we talk about this mindset, value and pricing thing more people have more information to choose the lifestyle EACH want to enjoy for themselves. Good stuff! I am, as always, at your service and in HIS Sevice, Dean <><
Dean Hankey, *M.D. - The Dean of Success Solutions!
Serving & Supporting YOU and Your Success! "Book More Shows... Make More Money... SERVE MORE PEOPLE! - Not Necessarily In That Order…" (*Marketing Doctor) |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Hey Dean,
Nobody's trying to attack you or your reputation here. But, I think your examples are still apples to oranges. You have listed a number of different types of shows, each with their own requirements. What I was specifically referring to is the variety show. Now, if someone wanted to hire The Dean to emcee their variety show because of his many reknown credentials (not hacking on you here, you seem to have quite a few) then they might expect to pay a certain amount for him to do so. If, on the same show, is David Copperfield, well, his market value is going to exceed yours and DC is going to make a lot more money. That's what I'm saying. Now, to put it into perspective and make it relevant to the original question asked by Mr. Gilbert (the other Dean). I assume the Mr. G is a competent and quite probably an excellent performer. Yet, as good as he undoubtly is, he does not have the market value of a David Copperfield either. And, to further explain my position, I am making a brave assumption here that the other performers in the show also do not have a market value that is somewhere beyond us mere mortals. Those two assumptions in place, the person/people putting the show together that Mr. G has been asked to emcee, will have a budget to work with. That person/people is/are going to have to make decisions on how to allocate the payments. If Mr. G asks for his full amount and gets it, then the money was in the budget in the first place and great for him. Likely however, the money that is put aside for the emcee, will be less than the performer doing a full act. I'm not trying to belittle the importance of emceeing here, I just emceed to three separate theatre variety shows last weekend. So, if the performer doing a full act, is getting paid what Mr. G would normally get to also do a full act, it would not be unexpected that the fee for the emcee would be somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3's of that fee. Wishing you all all the success you can handle. RJE |
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