The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Society of American Magicians! » » Goodbye to S.A.M. for a year » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
weidhaas
View Profile
Loyal user
269 Posts

Profile of weidhaas
Hello Rodney:

Each Assembly may cast a vote for the annual election of officers. That vote may be worth 1, 2, or 3 ballots cast depending on the size of the Assembly.

Also, each Assembly may send a delegate to the National Council Meetings (there are 3 annually) who may vote on any proposals that come before the Council. Again, if the Assembly is large, that delegate may be "worth" 3 ballots cast, whereas the National President might only have 1 vote.

The SAM election committee sends the forms, ballots and instructions to your Assembly's Secretary.

Please review the Constitution and Bylaws that can be found on the SAM website, http://www.magicsam.com (under "why should I join").

By attending as a delegate, you are showing the National SAM leadership that you are interested in the SAM government, and can be an opportunity for you to begin your involvment as a committee member, State Deputy, or Regional Vice President.

To receive quick answers to these "government" questions, you can ask the committee chairs or your State Deputy or Regional Vice President. Their contact info is on the SAM website. Also, feel welcome to ask the National Administrator or any of the Executive Officers.

All the best, in M-U-M,

Mark Weidhaas
SAM 1st Vice President
mweidhaas@yahoo.com
(719) 637-9965
Skype: mweidhaas
mormonyoyoman
View Profile
Inner circle
I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only
2439 Posts

Profile of mormonyoyoman
So, yep, under the best of circumstances, a normal member gets only a fraction of a vote.

Sadly,
--Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
Rodney Palmer
View Profile
Inner circle
1317 Posts

Profile of Rodney Palmer
The problem is our Assembly never presented the VOTE to the members. I was not notified nor any other assembly member.

Rodney
"Creating Memories That Last A Lifetime"



In order to keep "MAGIC ALIVE" Please become a Mentor to a Young Person.
Father Photius
View Profile
Grammar Host
El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo)
17197 Posts

Profile of Father Photius
Then, First Class Magician, you should bring up that topic in your next business meeting of your assembly. Constitutions can be changed. If the membership starts a movement through their assemblies, they can ammend the constitution and change the voting rules.

The SAM is the senior magic organization in the U.S. that is still operating, when it was founded (back in the Day that Houdini actually served as its national president) communication was not what it is today. Long distance phone calls were not cheap, nor did everybody have a phone. There were no computers and internet. Getting out mass information and collecting mass information was a slow and expensive process.

Magic organizations were more focused on local members than the national organization at that time. As such the constitution of the SAM reflects that era, and using a system similar to the electoral college was much more practical for national matters.

Perhaps with the change of times and the ability to communicate with members in a less costly manner over the internet, and the ability of the membership to be more directly involved in the national governing level of the organization it is time to ammend the constitution. Constitutional ammendments can begin at the grass roots level. Use the internet, forums like this one, etc. to get the word out to the membership, and start working through assemblies to create and put forward an ammendment to the SAM constitution to change the voting policies.

It will take some time, will meet some resistence (very few proposals in an organization meets with the approval of everybody), but if enough of the membership is behind it, the majority of the assemblies can get behind it, I'm sure such could be pushed through. The key is participation. You can't do anything if you are not a member or not participating in the process.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
hou_dini
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of hou_dini
Fr. Photius, I readily agree. I was an associate member for the majority of my time in the SAM and have been a Life Member for 8+ yrs. In reading the constitution, I never had the right to vote as an associate member (which I really think is inherently wrong given the large percentage of associate members). As a Life Member, the issue of whether or not I can vote is not addressed. At a minimum, I believe that a Life Member should have that privilege.
What got me thinking is your reference and analogy to the electoral college and the abilities of the internet. I believe every member should have a vote and would like to see others get on board with this idea. Hope others can see things this way.
dcjames
View Profile
Special user
574 Posts

Profile of dcjames
As a PLP of an SAM Assembly, reading this post brought back many bad memories.

In the winter of 2001 I made a very personal and heartfelt decision to leave not only the SAM but also magic as a whole. I walked away from club meetings, attending conventions, and performing. I allowed my memberships in magic organizations and magazing subscriptions to lapse, and basically fell of the grid.

The time away was spent working on my private career and taking care of some long neglected personal issues. After this self-imposed 6-year hiatus, I have just recently begun dusting off my books and props in an effort to relearn forgotten moves and routines. I found The Magic Café not long ago and have really enjoyed the camaraderie typically exhibited here.

At the end of the day, Magic as a performance art, is a joyous and wonderful pursuit. It is beyond me how something of such beauty, meaning, and grace can become so sullied and distasteful by the very people who profess to love it.
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”

Tommy Wonder
The Books of Wonder
Volume 2
montymagi
View Profile
Special user
Slidell La
752 Posts

Profile of montymagi
Wow I joined for the first time before reading this thread. Now I wonder what I just steped into. There seem to be few if any magicians where I live so most of my contact will be on forums such as this wonderful one I have found today. I hope all works out well.
hou_dini
View Profile
Regular user
103 Posts

Profile of hou_dini
Spacecop: welcome to the Café! SAM is a great organization but even then has its faults. Don't take this thread as proof that the organization as a whole is bad. Some things need to be addressed but all in all I'm glad I'm part of it.
Bill Scarlett
View Profile
Veteran user
Vermont
365 Posts

Profile of Bill Scarlett
I've been a member for over 25 years and have learned much and benefited greatly from my membership. This back and fourth argument is tiresome to me and really doesn't interest me.

On a bright note, the announcement of Michael Close as the new Editor of MUM is fantastic news and makes me very hopeful that it will continue to be the high quality publication that it has become.

To those new to, or considering joining SAM, I would say go ahead and join, it is a great organization with a rich history in magic.
Whitewolfny
View Profile
Loyal user
216 Posts

Profile of Whitewolfny
I've been member of SAM for almost 40 years, but if I were new to magic and reading this thread or the other similar threads complaining about the organization, I'd think hard and long about joining. It seems many of the postings are complaints about how the organization is run, the secret decisions made about various topics, and so forth. No, I'd move on to see how members of other organiztions discuss their group. If you're not happy with SAM, then drop out and move on. If you see things that need to be changed, then get up and start making the changes. If you are a chronic whiner, just wanting to complain to make a noise, please go away.
Braxton Mannar
<BR>Just an old dog trying to learn new tricks Smile
Dr. Solar
View Profile
Special user
Citrus Heights, Ca.
526 Posts

Profile of Dr. Solar
I have been a member of SAM for only four years or so. If many of the local assemblies are like mine then I'm sure you are in the dark. I never knew about the voting process until reading this thread. You see, our local clubs do not believe in business meetings. Their belief is to get in, make the business meeting as brief as possible, under ten minutes gets a star, then get into the "meat" of the meating, the magic. If this were the case, no wonder Grandpa Chet feels so disenfranchised, but really, come on, his beef is about the $15.00 extra a year, period. If not, I nominate Grandpa Chet for next term president. The skeptic is the one needed for they have all the answers as seen through their eyes. Not being sarcastic here, If I wanted to go to the moon and made my intentions known, the skeptic would step forth and say, " You can't possibly do that. Do you know how much fuel that would take?"

Well, now I know that I would need a rather large craft to hold such a large fuel tank. And on, and on, with each problem.

Maria has done a remarkable job if I only learned through the pages of M-U-M. We are still an organization one year later.

If I were to look at my dues as only a subscription to M-U-M, so be it. Other magic magazines cost as much, and ours is certainly on par with those others. I thoroughly enjoy reading what other clubs are doing yet can't help feeling a bit envious or saddened because it must takes business meetings to pull off such fine events the various assemblies host, dinners, roasts, public shows, large scale auctions, inter club contests that actually draw contestants that actually promote magic in their localities thus generating publicity that such a club exists for magicians. These events take planning, and follow through, and obviously some clubs are more concerned with their own double lift during the fifteen to twenty minute magic sharing time and then comes the meeting close and off the members go home.

To any perspective new comers, please don't let comments such as Chet's dissuade you. And such as mine, each assembly stands on its own merits, as the many, and varied assembly reports show each month in M-U-M. And, I too, look forward to Michael Close being involved especially at such a prestigious position for I know his attention to detail and his solemn commitment to the magical arts are extremely high.

SAM-talk? I do not do Yahoo message boards, to me, they suck. I read possibly one comment every other day. Am I missing something? Has it been discontinued, if so, why am I still getting it?

Thanks to all the other supportive comments on this thread. Both supportive of the organization, M-U-M, officers involved, and including the nah-Sayers feelings as well. My only wish is that I can be so gracious.

Dr. Solar
"look for me in all things forgotten"
www.drsolar.com
Merlina
View Profile
Veteran user
Maria Ibanez
370 Posts

Profile of Merlina
Greetings everyone,

thank you Dr. Solar for your kind words with regards myself and to my year as President of the S.A.M. Writing the columns you speak of for the M.U.M. was a very special part of that year, made all the more special for the readers I knew they would reach and for the privilege of working with a great man, John Moehring.

Grandpa Chet is not as negative as you've perceived, and, he doesn't feel "disenfranchised" by his local group or assembly, but rather by the national association due to the lack of response from the powers that be.

It is not the closure of SAMtalk that is being questioned, it is the closure of SAMtalking which was a totally different type of newsgroup. SAMtalking was more like what The Magic Café is. It was immediate posting without "moderation" or "pre-approval" of messages as is the case with SAMtalk.

More than the closure of SAMtalking, it is the method, manner and timing of the closure that was being questioned. The entire National Council was conveened in Louisville at the convention but the National President waited until Sunday, after the convention ended to simply close it down without any warning. A message went out saying it was being done away with and that was how everyone heard.

Whether it was closed by approval of the "executive committee" or not, discussing it with the National Council at the meeting would have been at least a "nicer" way of doing things and would not have created all the hard feelings the closure has created for so many.

Chet, and others are complaining about the air of secrecy, perceived or factual,in the part of the hierarchy. The complaints are about the fact that it took a long time to get any response at all and when one came it was more of a response of it is done and we will look into it in the future yet that looking into as of today hasn't happened. The complaints are that even the moderator of SAMtalking was not warned that his group was being shut down and that at least would have been a courtesy.

I am not trying to fan the fire with this post Dr. Solar, I am just trying to clarify for you how and why Chet feels the way he does. Chet is a great human being, he is generous, kind and a great family man and all the time I knew him, an S.A.M. supporter and lover.

Again, sir, thank you for your kind words and as always in every one of my posts, please do not hesitate to contact me if you or anyone feels I may be of any assistance.

Keep a dream in the making for you create your tomorrows by what you dream today.

Maria Ibanez
Dr. Solar
View Profile
Special user
Citrus Heights, Ca.
526 Posts

Profile of Dr. Solar
Maria,
Thank you for the time it took to respond in such a way. As I said though, I am out of the loop especially when it comes to the National. In all my time in the organization, and I use that term lightly, I don't believe the mention of the National affairs have been mentioned once in our group. How could it? There is not enough time in 10 minutes to bring up much of anything.

I'm sorry to have maligned Grandapa Chet since his beef was deeper than I was able to gleen from his post. I hope you are able to quell his discontent and keep him around this next year for his valued input and continued love of magic and this fraturnity.

Sincerely,

Dr. Solar
"look for me in all things forgotten"
www.drsolar.com
Bill Hallahan
View Profile
Inner circle
New Hampshire
3211 Posts

Profile of Bill Hallahan
Mormonyoyoman wrote:
Quote:
So, yep, under the best of circumstances, a normal member gets only a fraction of a vote.

Sadly,
--Grandpa Chet

That's one way of looking at it, however, I disagree that this is a necessarily a bad thing. I have read several treatises on voting systems, and there are always trade-offs involved. I think that one person, one vote, is probably not the best system to use in this case.

If I had a single vote, instead of my Assembly having a single vote, then my Assembly would be subordinate to S.A.M. Assemblies in places like New York city. Some Assemblies have many, many, members.

And, since I agree with the majority of the people in my local Assembly on most issues, my vote is actually counting more than it should, since I live in New Hampshire, and our Assembly is relatively small compared to those in larger regions that have a larger population, and thus tend to have both larger Assemblies, and more of them.

I think that having large regions being able to dominate would generally be bad for the magic community as a whole.

Of course, if someone disagrees with the majority of people in their Assembly, they are losing out.

And, I admit, I don't know all the particulars of the S.A.M. voting system (and I probably should learn that), so I can't comment on that specific system, however, I don't have any reason to think the system is inherently unfair from what you have written, rather, it sounds like it's well thought out. It sounds like a democratic republic.

In any event, I'm very glad I'm a member. I have noticed that MUM magazine has improved in recent years, although I miss some of the old writers. But then, nothing lasts forever.



Maria,

I have been impressed with you from the start. You have the best communications skills I have seen in any president of the S.A.M., and you clearly deal with issues. As a member, I feel very lucky to have you as the president. Thank you for being who you are.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch"
Merlina
View Profile
Veteran user
Maria Ibanez
370 Posts

Profile of Merlina
Greetings Bill, your post has struck a chord with many as I have received numerous e-mails telling me about your kudos for me on the Café.

THANK YOU, sir, for your kind comments and for your sentiments with regards to me being a good communicator. I have always felt that it is all about the members and for the members for without members there would be no need for a society or other formal magic group.

With regards to your other comments about votes and whether or not they count, again, not to fan the fire but simply to explain further....here's how it works:

Assemblies receive votes depending on how many members they have. That is to say, your assembly, (you say it is small), receives 1 vote if you have under 50 paid members; Parent Assembly in New York, however, because it is so large, receives something like 3 or 4 votes. This is one of the reasons many feel it is not an equitable way to vote for those who represent the members.

Astute members of the hierarchy may target assemblies with multiple votes in order to secure their proxy vote for council meetings and this would then place the "fair voting practice" at a disadvantage to smaller assemblies and/or members, and presents an opportunity for "pushing through" whatever someone wants pushed through. Although you are limited to a maximum of 5 proxy votes per Council member, nothing precludes two or three members to get together to get up to 10 or 15 proxy votes and thereby having control of the voting situation.

In addition to the above, there is the issue of some assembly officers who never even discuss the ballots with the members of the group and simply vote (or not) according to what they think. I myself was a member of a local assembly here in Miami for many, many years and never knew we had a vote or a voice and had never been told there was such a thing as an RVP, etc.; my travels as President taught me that this assembly was not the exception, but rather it is fairly common place for members not to know about the "workings" of the Society.

The above are reasons that we keep saying as a member you should get involved, should find out about how the Society works, attend the National Council meetings, speak up, tell your RVP or Deputies in your regions what you think and what direction you would like to see the S.A.M. taking. It is YOUR Society, as a member, and YOU should have a voice albeit majority should rule but be given a voice as a member.

The other point that has been brought out by many on this thread and others is the lack of response from the powers that be. A recurring theme has been to point out that as President I was always there, and continue to be available to respond to anyone at any time they needed or need me. That, it has been pointed out by Grandpa and others, is not the case now.

Again, Bill, thank you for your kind words, thank you for your membership, and please do not hesitate to contact me privately or on open forum if I may ever be of any assistance to you or others....home number is 305-258-3414 my cell is 786-258-8762 and my e-mail is merlina17@aol.com or merlina@merlina.com. If you would like to receive the weekly Have you heard? newsletter, please just drop me a line and I will add you to that.

One more comment if I may; it is I who considers myself "lucky" to have had the opportunity to serve as your President and "lucky" to have the opportunity to serve magicians anywhere they feel I might.

Keep a dream in the making for you create your tomorrows by what you dream today.

Maria Ibanez
afuntimevent
View Profile
New user
CT
82 Posts

Profile of afuntimevent
If anyone on the Magic Café has experienced a lack of response from the "powers that be," please contact me directly with your concern. My email is afuntime@comcast.net.

Sincerely,
Marlene Clark
S.A.M. National Secretary
Bill Groome
View Profile
New user
Columbia, S.C.
89 Posts

Profile of Bill Groome
Maria worked tirelessly for SAM/SYM and is a wonderful person. She assisted us in founding the SAM/SYM Chapters here, and was always readily available. I am saddened to see the faltering of the organization.
All the Best,
Bill Groome (owner)
www.MadhatterMagicShop.com
Madhatter International
Merlina
View Profile
Veteran user
Maria Ibanez
370 Posts

Profile of Merlina
Greetings,

thank you Bill for those very kind words. It has always been my honor to be of service in any way I can. I continue to be "readily available" for anyone at any time that they feel I can be of any assistance. I know I have given these out before, but if you feel I can help in any way please do not hesitate to contact me at: 305-258-3414(home) 786-258-8762(cell) merlina17@aol.com or merlina@merlina.com and if you need to snail mail something my home address is 12791 S.W. 216 Terrace, Miami, Florida 33170.

If you wish to receive my weekly newsletter "Have you heard?" just drop me an e-mail and I will add you to the list. The newsletter is now published weekly on the portal of the I.B.M. as well. The newsletter comes out every Monday.

Again Bill, THANK YOU for your kind words -- it was my honor to be able to help you.

Keep a dream in the making for you create your tomorrows by what you dream today.

Maria Ibanez
Merlina
View Profile
Veteran user
Maria Ibanez
370 Posts

Profile of Merlina
Greetings, just received my issue of SAMtalk #3442 and was very much surprised to see that under item #5, Most Illustrious Bruce Kalver, National President is asking for "testers".

The item says that over the past few months he has received some requests for an online M.U.M. and this was a project they have been working on for months and are now ready to test it.

I was very surprised at this change. In one of his columns in M.U.M., he had written that "the publication will never go electronic".

Best to Michael Close as the new Editor. His first edition was very good and well received by everyone I've heard from and who has written in this and other newsgroups.

Now I will wait and see what happens when the "test" goes on line....although Mr. Kalver says in his post that this "will not replace the printed copy".

Keep a dream in the making

Maria Ibanez
Rob Stewart
View Profile
New user
Lakeland FL
31 Posts

Profile of Rob Stewart
Quote:
On 2009-01-17 08:25, Merlina wrote:
Greetings, just received my issue of SAMtalk #3442 and was very much surprised to see that under item #5, Most Illustrious Bruce Kalver, National President is asking for "testers".

The item says that over the past few months he has received some requests for an online M.U.M. and this was a project they have been working on for months and are now ready to test it.



I was very surprised at this change. In one of his columns in M.U.M., he had written that "the publication will never go electronic".

Best to Michael Close as the new Editor. His first edition was very good and well received by everyone I've heard from and who has written in this and other newsgroups.

Now I will wait and see what happens when the "test" goes on line....although Mr. Kalver says in his post that this "will not replace the printed copy".

Keep a dream in the making

Maria Ibanez


Maria,

I have gone back to all the past issues of MUM looking at Bruce’s president’s column. Can you tell us specifically where you found the quote saying that he would never put MUM online? I can’t find it and don’t believe he ever said that.

Thanks,

Rob
Rob Stewart
M U M
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Society of American Magicians! » » Goodbye to S.A.M. for a year » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL