Well, fifteen year-olds with machine guns aside (and Kregg, now that you mention it, I guess there are more than a few kids running around with weapons in the U.S. these days, too), I think that Tommy's question, though general, gets a lot closer to the heart of the issue than the 732 threads on exposure over at the Right or Wrong forum.

Most of those threads go something like this: Joe is exposing, no he isn't, yes he is, well it's youtube and youtube is exposure, not true--youtube is a new teaching medium to be embraced, bla bla bla bla bla.

What is rarely questioned is whether magical secrets ought to be disseminated AT ALL. Period.

The sad fact is that all magical secrets seem to be for sale.

So Tommy questions whether we ought to at least put an age restriction on the sale of those secrets.

Which brings us back to the fella in the magic shop.

I dunno. It used to be that the rituals of human sexuality were something kept from kids, but they certainly managed to find out those secrets pretty well. And now, in the days of the internet, they can't even be called secrets anymore. So should the fella in the magic shop just start selling porn to kids instead of magic?

I'll shut up now. I'm getting more confused as I go along, rather than clarifying things in my own mind. At heart I wish that the secrets of magic were still secrets, even to me. I'd like to be here begging and pleading for initiation, rather than reading the banners with a credit card in my hand.

The original question does not specify magic, it simply asks," Would you trust an adolescent with a secret?"

Even so, how many times, or ways, have we asked the same question? "The same thing only different,"
Magic is not about the secrets. Chances are the audience could guess how in more ways than the average magician can imagine ... who knows they might even come up with a more practical idea.
I've seen rooms full of card workers watch other card workers, though they ALL know the secret ... that is not what makes or breaks the act. I am a graduate of Chavez (under Neil Foster) and even though I knew every single secret Lance Burton blew us all away in 1979.

Kregg, you make an excellent point. But maybe one of the secrets of magic is that it is not about the secrets. Why should the uninitiated have the slightest idea at all what it is "about"?

I realize that I am approaching this from an entirely different angle. I'm a strange man, after all. I think I said above that this not just about "secrets" but knowledge. I am ready to suggest that many sorts of knowledge should be made available through a VERY un-democratic process. I would prefer to use the word "mysteries" in this context, and I would apply it to all sorts of knowledge other than magic: Sex, as I've already mentioned; martial arts, also already mentioned; philosophy; maybe even "mysteries" of the banjo. why should all of this knowledge simply be for sale? I'd gladly mentor some kid into banjo playing: but he or she is going to have to approach me--and with the right "spirit". I'm not hanging out a shield and advertising. Now, I may be slightly exaggerating with this last example, but it approaches the heart of the matter, I think. It's not about age. It's not about youtube. It's not about "secrets". It's about whether ALL knowledge should be made available to anyone for a price, and how high that price should be. Obviously I didn't mean that learning magic should be "playing for blood"; but metaphorically it is precisely what I meant.

But that's enough. I should be playing around with my cups and balls. I dished out quite a lot of money for the Ammar DVDs, so I should make better use of them.


I just got to thinking how ridiculous my posts probably sound (blood oaths to obtain a TT or learn to play the banjo...) and came back to delete my last one, but I'm past the 30 minute limit.

So I'll just have to leave it up as a reminder of how silly I can sound at times.

Sorry.

Can I trust an adolescent with a magical secret? Absolutely. I was first trusted with magic secrets from my mentors and teachers when I got started at 14. I now teach kids ages 7-17 the art of magic through the Society of Young Magicians program. I would trust any of them with the secrets to magic. The reason is simple to me. It is about the teacher or instructor making sure that the students understand what magic is and what it is not. You are the one responsible for making sure the students understand certain philosophies and ethics of the art that you are teaching to them.

Kyle

Excellent point Kyle. I think that entrusting one with secrets is a great way to build character, as long as, the individual is admonished or rewarded based on how well they perform the task of confidence. Part of teaching character is not to overwhelm folks with too much at once.

Thanks. It absolutely builds character as I have seen the kids I teach change right before my eyes over a period of time. They build character and self-esteem through learning and the keeping of secrets. They learn to trust me and I learn to trust them. We share mutual respect towards each other and towards the magical arts.

Kyle

I do not propose a restriction but merely a waning notice to send a message that magic is not a toy. We are all for the teaching of keeping magic secrets, what I am against is them being sold as if they were just toys to kids or anyone. There are some wonderful teaching places for them aged between 10 and 18 such as The Young Magicians Club is a youth initiative of The Magic Circle.

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All this is on sale in major toy shops.

What is the difference between a toy shop and a magic shop when:

“Well, since catering to professional magicians isn't that big of a market, a large part of the purpose of the store was actually to separate impressionable adolescents and their parents from their money by wowing them with some simple, but extremely effective illusions.”

I understand what you're getting at now, Tommy. But this is one of those Pandora's Box things: we have to live with it. Yes, those magic sets are available in every toy store and every book store...although most of it is cheap plastic crap.

Take a look at this:

https://www.pappnase.de/shop/hauptkatalo......e/75046/

Granted, the average person is not going to pop out €1K+ for this as a Christmas present for their kid. But the catalog its in caters to schools as well as individuals. Their target customers are school kids performing in school circuses--hence there is a bunch of juggling, black light, tumbling stuff. But there are also a couple of REAL magic effects available to anyone and everyone with the cash. No magic store necessary. No membership in a magic organization. Just a teacher thinking, "hey, this would be cool for our future circuses, and we've got some extra money in the budget for it...". And the school buys it and some lucky kids get to learn it every year...no blood oaths or anything!

(Still, it's a cool catalog and their stores are cool. I've bought stuff from them. My hypocrisy knows no bounds.)