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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups - blackened on the inside? Why? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

deadcatbounce
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Hi,

Iv'e just come into possession of a set of Burtini cups, which have look like they've hosted a small fire on the inside, darkening the metal. One of them has a black cardboard sleeve fitted inside. I'd guess the object of the excercise would be to hide a black ball during certian manouvres - would that be about right?

Regards,


DCB
"With every mistake - we must surely be learning..." George Harrison.
L Trunk
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Could be. I've seen it done for other reasons. One of those being that the loads look bigger in front of the black back drop of the open cup.
Mad Jake
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DCB,
does the inside have soot residue? Burtini cups were mostly spun from Nickel, Bill Palmer can ellaborate on this. Nickel is prone to black oxidizing, unlike copper or brass.

Jake
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
deadcatbounce
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Soot. Yes. Like I said, it seems like maybe there was a small fire in there.. Smile
And one of the cups has a small felt pad on the internal base.

Where does the soot come from? And why are they perfectly shiny on the outside, if oxidisation is the cause of the insides being black?

Regards,

DCB
"With every mistake - we must surely be learning..." George Harrison.
pepka
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I know some cups, particularly the ones that Collector's Workshop used to make have a black enamel baked on the inside. I've never handled them, but one would think this would really POP when tipping a cup back to reveal a ball inside. I'm sure Jake, Bill or Pete can comment further.
Mad Jake
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It was probally used as a fire cup, the pad at the bottom was the source, most likely lighter fluid or cold fire was used to prevent discoloaration of the exterior.

Nickel cups in general are clear coated with laquer or epoxy. But given if they are Burtini's I think Bill shold verify if they came with anytype of chrome or clear coating, this would prevent the nickel from oxidizing.

To clearcoat or epoxy the inside of a cup is a nightmare as you can't get an even flow of coating on it.

You can tell a clear coat from a chrome coating by the color of the cups, clear produces a more bluish nickel, where as chrome coating is more mirror/silver in color.

Hope this helps a bit
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
deadcatbounce
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I'm no expert on metal finishing processess, but these do look like chrome. And they were described as chrome when I purchased them.

The pad on the bottom shows no sign of ever being burned. I've just noticed that oneof the cups must have sustained a bash at sometime, as it doesn't sit down completely on the cup below. I doubt if this will cause problems, and I'm sure it's not at all unusual. But.. it occurs to me that it would be fairly easy to damage a cup, and I'm surprised that I've not come across anyone looking for a method to re-shape a bent cup.

I'm just starting out on the cups and balls journey, incidentally, so I'm not talking from any experience here.

I'm on the lookout for the Ammar complete cups and balls DVDs, and I have the book promised.. until then, I'm looking for info on the wand spin. Is it actually broken down anywhwere? I know these kind of moves are difficult to disect, but one thing I know for sure is - I'm not the first to ask for this info. Can anyone point me in the right direction, till my "instruction" arrives?

Thanks!

DCB
"With every mistake - we must surely be learning..." George Harrison.
professorwhut
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The wand spin is taught on the Ammar DVD, that is where I learned it.
I am pretty thick headed, and was able to learn the wand spin with ease with these DVDs.

Good luck on your C&B journey.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.

TG Pop [aka ProfessorWhut]
deadcatbounce
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Thanks,..
I just spotted it on the Greater Magic Cups and Balls video.. I've still to get the two Ammar Cups andd Balls DVDs..
I really want to take this one step at a time. I've been watching street performers doing one routine or another for a long time, and always thought.. "How come 90% of them have the same patter?" And of course, the answer is, it's easier to copy/steal from someone else than it is to sit down and think up your own routine.
I plan on branching out into street stuff next year.. so, I thought.. it IS a nice finisher.. Smile Got my cups, got my balls... and I've got the time!!..

Thanks all,

DCB
"With every mistake - we must surely be learning..." George Harrison.
Bill Palmer
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The Burtini cups were made in England by a fellow named Bill Powell, who worked for the Royal Mint and for the RAF. The Burtini cups I have are chrome plated. Burtini also spun for Harry Stanley and Davenport's.

You can tell the different silvery platings apart by a very simple method. Chrome has a very slight bluish tinge. Nickel has a very slight yellowish tinge. Silver has a very slight greyish tinge.

The black stuff on the inside of the cups could be many different things. The inside of the cup may have been coated with asphaltum to keep the plating from occurring on the inside. It could be residue from the spinning process. It could be simple oxidation of the unpolished metal inside.

If you want to clean these up, just use soap and water. If you wish, you can use a green 3M scrubbing pad, but use it on the inside only. Don't try to use Tarn-X or anything that is chemically heavily active on these cups.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Tom Fenton
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DCB,
the wand spins are taught in Michael Ammar's C&B book too.
"But there isn't a door"
Mobius303
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Learn it with both hands ...also leanred the Williamson/drummer's wand spin as well.

The Magic of Michael Ammar is a great source to learn the wand spin from...the illustrations are excellent. That was where I learned it.

Williamson teaches his wand spin in his book Williamson's Wonders.

About Black interrior on cups. The first set I used and saw that had Black interrior was the Collector's Workshop cups and it really let's the balls stand out when doing certain things. It also allows the balls to hide inside because there is not a reflection of the ball or balls on the interrior. I had Jake blacken the interrior of my Sherwoods because I liked the look of a black interrior to the cups.

Have fun on your journey.
Mike
deadcatbounce
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I've just hooked out the Ammar book, and discovered there's quite a bit of good stuff in there. Strange.. I've checked that book over the years for details on other items, and completely overlooked the cups and balls bit.
You know.. there are none so blind.. as those.. blah bah.
But - this has happened many times before. I have quite a collection of classic books, and instead of doing what I SHOULD , ie, consulting my own library, I go looking in the outside world.
I also have the Williamson book, and same story there...

Yikes-a-Mighty!

Cheers

DCB
"With every mistake - we must surely be learning..." George Harrison.
Bill Palmer
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The black interiors on the Burtini cups are kind of random. And they definitely aren't paint.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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