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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drama
Quote:
In theatre, the two main things to consider are: a) drama is driven by conflict and b) that drama is action. Action can be loosely defined as anything a character does with an objective behind it, whereas conflict can be briefly summarized as a clash between the motives of one or more characters. Can you put the above into context with a card conjurer performing a card trick. Can you explain to this confused card conjurer: What is the card conjurers Objective behind his Action? What is the card conjurers Motive. And who’s and what motive does it Clash with?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Vernon's "Cutting the Aces" comes to mind.
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
That's a pretty limited definition of "conflict", in my opinion. While dualling motives can create conflict, conflict can also be of the Man Vs. Environment and Man Vs. Self variety. Both of those can find their way into a performance, and neither of them have to involve a motive on the part of the opposing force.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Sounds like 'Strong Magic' Andrew.
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Tommy's quote or my response to it?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
You Andrew.
I've been reading 'Strong Magic' (again) and Darwin covers some conflicts you mention. As far a Tommy's post, there are several elements that can create drama or/and suspense in a theatrical sense. I'd also add that I think that the conjuror's motive and objective should be to entertain. I'm no intellectual so I doubt I'm fully understanding all of Tommy's questions. |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Ah ok. Sorry, I just wanted to be sure, for a couple of reasons. First, the triad of Man Vs. Man, Man Vs. Environment and Man Vs. Self in terms of categorizing conflicts is as old as narrative fiction studies, and second, I seem to remember Strong Magic being really good about analyzing the different ways conflict can be added to a magic presentation, which made me think the quote couldn't have been his.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
In a film or a play where there is a magician performing magic, there is usually a good magician v evil magician thing going on, or some sort of enemy to defeat etc, which is the motive for the magic. In other words in films there is a point to the magic, other than to merely amuse and entertain. While I like amusing and entertaining people with card magic, I feel that I am playing a part more akin to a Court Jester than a Magician, because I have no motive other than to amuse and entertain.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-02 18:46, tommy wrote: That's okay. Your motive is to amuse and/or entertain, and you do so by presenting a premise that seems logical, except that in the end something illogical (or unexpected) happens. To oversimplify this, let's say that it's no different than someone deciding to go to the movies: they'll pick a movie based on the story, or the stars, or the reviews, or any combination of the above, and then sit there and allow the movie to take them on a journey. That's the whole point. Besides, if you read up on court jesters, you'll find that they were the only ones allowed to say things that no one else dared to say.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There are card tricks that place the magician in a role play, such as the magician versus the card sharp in a story teller sort of way. I like being a story teller where in a sense one is playing many parts I guess. Also in many a card trick the cards represent characters and so on. Perhaps that quote could be fitting when looking at card tricks that way.
Quote:
On 2008-10-02 16:40, Jaz wrote: Why? does Vernon come to mind? Perhaps because he told great stories when showing you a card trick and created a little drama, created theatre perhaps.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Tommy,
If you're talking about storytelling presentations, there are several potential themes... Magicians versus other magicians (Mark Leveridge Ring and Rope routine) Magician versus gambler Narrator (not acting as a magician) versus swindler (Colour Monte) Magician versus unruly spectator (Triumph) Magician versus magic teacher *** (While I've never seen this one performed, I'm sure it's out there, and I have a hard time imagining a better, more satisfying way to reframe a standard challenge effect, than to show something one's magic teacher did to him in order to keep his head from getting too big) (I seem to remember having a longer list somewhere... I'll post here if I can remember them) Additionally, there are many stories in which the props serve as symbols of the characters or other story elements... Bro John Hamman's Two Twins Hollingworth's Cinderella Sam the Bellhop Thieves and Sheep coin trick (self-worker) There's also real-time conflict, which is much like a story that plays out in front of the audience, without the lack of immediacy that story retellings can have Magician versus Spectator (Any standard Challenge Effect) Magician plagued by magic (Tommy Wonder's Cough Drop, Cardini's lobby act) Spectators versus each other (one spectator can make magic happen, the other cannot) Spectator versus difficult odds (Tommy Wonder's Elizabeth IV) Performer versus Environment (Escape Act with jeopardy of some sort) Magician versus Personal Record (Magician attempts to beat some sort of feat) I'll post more when I can remember them... Incidentally, Eugene Burger is very good at this. Check out Magical Voyages.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
I remember watching a "when things go wrong" type TV show once. During the episode an "escape" artist really has trouble with his locks and the whole thing goes up in flames ... now that's drama! And it's rarely, if ever duplicated by magicians or escape artist. Because magicians are expected to be able to get away with things by employing our secrets, "real" danger is often dismissed by many audience members over the age of twelve.
POOF!
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
One thing to consider in the performance of a magic trick vis-a-vis the idea of conflict is that in a sense 'conflict' is inherent in magic. That is, the magician begins to do something and even though the audience does not know 'what' the magician is going to do they know that he is going to 'attempt' to do 'something'.
CAN the magician do it? Can he succeed? Note one sentence in the genesis post: "Action can be loosely defined as anything a character does with an objective behind it, whereas conflict can be briefly summarized as a clash between the motives of one or more characters." The 'action' in any magic routine is that action that moves the routine from inception to finish or finale. Or, those actions in sequence that so move the routine forward. The conflict is the magician's inherent contention that he will 'fool' the audience in some fashion and thereby provide entertainment. The audience participates in the conflict in a variety of ways depending upon what each member expects of the performer: Will he fail, I hope he fails, I hope he succeeds, etc. Thus the simplest of effects partakes of both dramatic conflict and action to resolve that conflict. For instance: I show you a half dollar. I SHOW you the half dollar pointing up silently that it is 'really' there. I place it in my L.H. and close the hand over the coin. I wait. I point. I snap my fingers. The audience gets it. Something is about to happen. What? Hand opens to show the coin has vanished. Resolution. Best,
Brad Burt
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-03 04:09, tommy wrote: Yes, and not only in the above routine. Vernon had a character that had been places, saw and experienced many things and, true or not, he played that character. His card routines weren't always about gambling but always engaging whether it was mentalism or other card magic. |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Thanks fellas. I think I feel a bit better now anyhow. You know I think the Café has sent me paranoid. I used to just go and do some card magic and was quite happy but now I can’t stop thinking about what I am doing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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