|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next] | ||||||||||
mindhunter Inner circle Upstate NY 2280 Posts |
Reps hinge and fall on single "internet posts"
Imagine Annemann in the time of the internet,,,pre or post bourbon...or ,,,, Hope my small one stays in the "good'" category, but...I really don't care.... I make a graet living...isn't that ALL our goal....? Richard posted this initial (4 pages and counting!) thread, and, in my opinion, (and I'll throw the disclaimer out there that I know him fairly well) to defend something he poured his heart and soul, many sheets of paper, and much thought, into, over 20 years ago. He SHOULD post. If my BOHT, Your Lucky NITE, or SEVEN (comercial items) were infringed upon, I would be mad. The BCS, in my opinion, WILL be around long after all of us are gone. 100 from nw. As will many items Richard has released for way too low of a price to the mentalism community. DISCLAIMER: I have dealt with Mick through eBook trades and he seems a great guy, with some great performance tips to share. He works every day. I do not have his recent book with this stack, but it seems he has chimed in when he can. He PERFORMS for a living, as does Richard, and we all should lokk up to that. They are bust PREFESSIONALS. Making a LIVING of of MENTALISM. I am sure he came up with his stack on his own....he said he did. If another stack works for you then USE IT....the best stack in my opinion is the BCP...you may differ... Richard shared his THOUGHTS on HOW he came up with BCS in somthing that took a while to write up...we SHOULD be thankfull for that......And I DO consider him a national treasure in the field of mentalism...friendship aside. your loss if you don't Not many on here can cliam that.
Bryn D. Reynolds, Author of:
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls" Mentalism ebooks - PM any interest. My artwork: https://darkmountainarts.com |
|||||||||
Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Bryn I readily admit and agree that Richard has had a huge impact on the field of mentalism.
He is a treasure to many and my intent was not to diminish his impact. My reply was made to Kyle and his comment. Looking back I possibly did choose the wrong way to frame my response to him. My intention was not to make comment on Richard at all with that post. If I have upset anyone with that post I am sorry. It was unintentional. In addition I apologise for my reply to Spinnato. I should have been more pleasant. Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
|
|||||||||
RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
I am SHoCkeD Doug Dyment's brilliant 'Quickstack' has not been mentioned [unless I missed it]. I use Quickstack for several memory type presentations, and BCS for other mental effects.
My performing life was absolutely transformed by Richard Osterlind's contributions to the Art. I am also going to order Mick Ayres' new e-book. His material is superb! Especially for workers who wish to add proven 'simple and direct' entertaining pieces to there repertoire. I may not use his stack, but I look forward to adding it to my bank of knowledge. Come to think of it, the greatest value that[for me] with Micks work is not only the wonderful effects...but the thinking behind them. Re: Scripting, transition, etc. Mick Ayres: I also thank-you for the advice you have personally, and unselfishly provided me....on the Café, and also another forum. Happy trails. Rich |
|||||||||
Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Ok, c'mon, lets get to da TWOOTH!!!!
Cri$$ invented both systems (and IPON) two weeks before Annemann was born.... he was cleaning his sawed off elephant gun when it accidently discharged and sent a pack of cards into some chocolate and crushed peanut paste.... the rest is history. EDIT: And Quickstack too of course
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
|
|||||||||
mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
Good doctor, you are correct. With Cri$$ (love that name!) and the Masked "magician" around, who needs another reason to raise our respective blood pressure?
*jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
|||||||||
jonhall19 New user Salt Lake City 68 Posts |
I love the breakthrough card system. It is the only card effect I ever use in my mentalism routines (I usually avoid cards), because it is just so perfect on every level.
|
|||||||||
Jarod Loyal user Scotland 226 Posts |
I did some study on it but didn't spend the time to learn it correct.
After Richard's post and all the other written comments I will sure start again with the system! Cheers, Jarod
It's not the Trick. It's the Magician!
Harry Houdini |
|||||||||
jonhall19 New user Salt Lake City 68 Posts |
It's definitely worth every minute of your time, and it is something you will never forget. I had taken a break from mentalism for around a year, and just recently got back into doing it (have my first professional event this weekend since I started again). I was pleasantly surprised that I could still remember how to do it.
|
|||||||||
Jarod Loyal user Scotland 226 Posts |
Jonhall,
great to hear! That keeps me going! I wish you good luck for your further shows! Cheers, Jarod @DerZauberer I just watched your clip from the Magic Castle (BTCS) and it was a very good performance! You didn't even shuffle the cards for the first experiment but showed the cards twice in full view to the spectator. IMO nobody will be questioning the cards not to be a real deck! Cheers, Jarod
It's not the Trick. It's the Magician!
Harry Houdini |
|||||||||
mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
It's actually quite easy to learn, Jarod. I learned it on my first read-through, and a couple of other people told me they did the same. One young lady learned it before she was finished reading - before she even got to the illustration of it!
It only requires remembering one formula. And if a neurologically-damaged person such as myself (The neurologist told me wife that I'd have trouble with short-term memory from then on, and she asked "How will I tell the difference?") can learn it so quickly, it MUST be a snap! *jeep! --Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
|||||||||
Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-09 16:04, mormonyoyoman wrote: Chet, I appreciate that. To anyone who has the 25th anniversary edition of the Breakthrough Card System, if you carefully read the introduction, you will see how I came about developing it – much like I wrote here in my first post. You will see that my very first thought was to simply combine the numeric value of the lead card with the suit value, adopted from Cornelius (see footnote), to arrive at a new card value. As I wrote there, over 5 years ago, I quickly discarded that idea as it didn’t accomplish any real degree of randomness. The card values rise continuously and obviously through the stack. You can sit down and try it yourself based on what I wrote in the introduction. As a matter of fact, if a quick spreading of the cards and then the effect is what is in order, one can do just as well with the Si Stebbins or 8 Kings. I showed that in my Easy To Master Mentalism series. The only reason to go more complicated is to do those effects where the deck might be truly examined and scrutinized., such as in my Test Conditions effect or the Corinda effect. And then, as per my logic when I developed the system, why would you only want to do it halfway? If you need to have a truly looking random deck, then I would prefer to do it right, not “random light!” Do you know that many people take for granted the concept using the value of the second card in the mathematics? That’s what allows for my system or anything like it to exist in the first place. Many top people such as Bruce Cervon thought that was one of the greatest leaps of original thinking ever to be applied to card magic. Johnny Thompson once told me he was amazed at the whole concept and that he and Dai Vernon talked about it quite a bit. See, no one else could ever produce a system, even a lesser one, without that idea. The suit values were, of course, the hard part. Not seeing 2 suits or card values together would be pretty obvious to anyone more than a casual observer. It is those things that immediately cry out “mixed!” when spreading the cards in front of someone. That translates into a far less scrutiny of the deck allowing for a less worrisome presentation because you don’t have to hide anything. It took a lot of effort to work out the SOBA principle, but it was well worth it. Remember, I don’t like more complicated than necessary any more than anyone else. The finished product of the Breakthrough Card System is as concise as it needs to be. There is no unnecessary math or real hard figuring to contend with. That is not just my opinion, but that of thousands of magicians and mentalists who have been using the system over the years. As a matter of fact, I think more people have written to me and thanked me over the years for this system than anything else I have devised. A quick look through of the current acts of many mentalists right here on the Café will show how many include Breakthrough Card System effects in their shows. I would find it hard to believe that they had difficulty doing the math if they are actually using it! Most of the letters I get say that it took a few hours to get it down and that was that. More importantly, if you don’t use it for awhile, it will still be right there in your head! So again, thanks to all those who swear by the Breakthrough Card System and no other. I appreciate it! Richard Footnote: For the record, the ONLY thing derived from Cornelius is giving each suit a number value from 1 to 4. That’s it and represents a tiny fraction of the whole concept. I only mention this as some would try to lead you to believe that somehow the Breakthrough Card System was a derivative of that. |
|||||||||
Sven Rygh Inner circle Oslo, Norway. 1945 Posts |
Just seconding Chet and some of you other guys here.
BTCS is wonderful, easy to learn, and you will remember the system even though if you lay off from it for a while. I use it constantly, and have had one BTCS effect on it's permanent place in my stage show for quite a number of years. Sven
WWW.SVENRYGH.NO
"Keep it as simple as possible, - but no simpler" http://www.svenrygh.no/sven-rygh/presse/nrk-forst-og-sist/ http://www.svenrygh.no/video.html |
|||||||||
Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Richard and I had a bit of correspondence and that is the reason for this post.
I mischaracterized his motivation for starting this thread and his posting. My assertion that this was motivated by market share was and is incorrect according to Richard. If he would not know then who would? He said it has to do with history and as I said privately I do understand his position and I would be fair in my analysis of this situation. I think that as creators and performers we must at times step back and try to understand the other guy. I have done so and retract my previous statement that Richard was motivated because of loss in market share. Hope this sets the record strait. Best Wishes, Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
|
|||||||||
RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
When I first started using the BCS,my 'calculations' weren't as crisp as they are now.I remember thinking...o crap,they are going to assume that I am doing some weird math in my head...and any amazing result will be lost.El wrongo!My deep thought actually enhanced the effect.This of course was just a guilty conscience on my part.lol
The difference now is...because I can now know what I need to know in a second or two...I have the freedom to play around with the presentation a bit before the revelation/revelations.Much more fun. Happy trails. Rich |
|||||||||
Magical Lady Loyal user 275 Posts |
I have just received and read Richard's Breakthrough Card System, and I have to say, I think it's brilliant!
I have always had the impression that it would be difficult to learn, with complicated working out to be done, but put simply, it isn't. On first read through, I found myself setting up the stack as I went along, (and believe me when I say that's not because I am clever /gifted at maths, I'm not, the furthest I ever went with maths was GCE 'O' Level, and even then it was a struggle!) For those of you who also aren't familiar with the system, it is a SINGLE CIRCUIT cyclical deck in that there are no repetitions of pattern throughout and therefore also, no tell tale signs of the deck being set up. It even allows for cards of the same suit to be sat alongside one another, again giving the impression of an ordinary mixed deck to any who might choose to take a closer look. The process for me was to read through the manuscript with a pen and paper with the intention of noting down the 'rules' as I read, but in summary, all you actually need to be able to do in order to work the system is add and subtract up to 13, and remember a keyword - SOBA. For any others out there who have been put off by the thought that this would be too complicated a system to work easily, all I can say is don't be. Try it. Order it, then when it comes, sit down quietly with it for 20 minutes (without TV/radio or any other distraction), and focus on it. You'll be very glad you did! Best, ML |
|||||||||
Jarod Loyal user Scotland 226 Posts |
It is also perfectly covered in Richard Osterlind's DVD
- Mind Mysteries - Volume 2 - The Osterlind Breakthrough Card System In this volume of Richard Osterlind's video series, he shares perhaps his greatest contribution to magic and mentalism-the Breakthrough Card System, considered by many to be the most ingenious playing card stack ever devised. Cheers, Jarod
It's not the Trick. It's the Magician!
Harry Houdini |
|||||||||
Mick Ayres Special user Hilton Head Island 998 Posts |
Richard Osterlind is a gentleman...and a patient one at that.
Richard and I spent all morning on the phone sharing our backgrounds and getting the historical details straight about our respective card systems. Richard now understands that I developed the Ayres Shuffled System independently and managed to achieve a different and highly satisfactory stack that works very well for me in my venues and shows. This stack is the one recently published in my book "Noetic License" (Book Three in the Act-series). MORE IMPORTANTLY however, I now understand that when Richard Osterlind developed his Breakthrough Card System, he was the first performer to create the simple concept of using the value of the target card to determine that card's suit. Although our respective systems diverge after that point, please be assured...I could NOT have created my system without Mr. Osterlind's vital concept. With Richard's approval and gracious permission, I have included this historical information clearly in the description of the Ayres Shuffled Sytem within the pages of "Noetic License". Finally, I also wish to publicly state that I seriously regret the angry post I made a few pages ago on this thread. Though it was borne from hurt over the wild assumptions being made...it was still immature of me. I plead forgiveness from anyone I may have hurt in return by my harsh statements. Sincerely, Mick Ayres
THE FIVE OBLIGATIONS OF CONJURING: Study. Practice. Script. Rehearse. Perform. Drop one and you're done.
|
|||||||||
Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Mick,
I, myself, sometimes let my anger get the better of me and would have handled things a bit differently if I had it to do over again. (Now, geee! There'a a new concept ... Being able to do things over again!!!) Yes, we had a very good talk about quite a few things. Mick is a good guy and I respect him and his work. His "Act" series is wonderful. I remain, of course, proud of my Breakthrough Card System and stand by it on all fronts, but I certainly invite any person to analyze mine, Mick's or any of the other systems available to see what is best for them. So thanks for posting that, Mick, and I wish you all the best. Richard |
|||||||||
Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-10 18:39, Mick Ayres wrote: Actually, it takes TWO people to TANGO! And both you and Richard have showed to be two fine gentlemen!
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
|
|||||||||
Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
GROUP HUG!
I always love it when things work out 'just so.' I share a deep respect for both you guys, Mick and Richard. Happy to see this resolved and to gain an incredibly valuable history lesson in the process! -Jerome
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Development of the Breakthrough Card System (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |