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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » lingustic effects (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

sludge
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milton keynes, england
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hi chaps,

I am a big fan of effects that utilise language as the main "gimmick" (like mavens "positive negative" and examples in wonder words).

Can anyone reccommend any other good sources for this type of material, other than the videomind series and kentons stuff - which I have most of?
David_Libertine
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Lake Charles, LA
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I enjoy listening to the linguistic effects used on C-SPAN, CNN, etc.

Seriously. If you have all three volumes of Wonder Words and think you've pretty much "wrung them dry", turn on the national or international news and listen to what the actual governmental and political representatives say.

I wish I could write a script for a routine with the finesse and subtlety of some of the speech-writers from different countries.

I've found linguistics to be like many disciplines, read the books and then put them down and learn the "master class" in the real world.
Boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Boy: Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
Ian Rowland
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A good point from Mr Libertine, who beat me to it!

I'd like to suggest you look a little beyond the frontiers of 'magic books' as such, and enjoy some excellent books which examine how we use and abuse language, and how different linguistic devices and effects work. They just might spark some new approach in your own work!

A few starters:

Vance Packard, 'The Hidden Persuaders' (the mother of all modern media analysis).
David Ogilvy, 'Ogilvy on Advertising' (a brilliantly written masterclass on misdirection).
Michael Wheeler, 'Lies, *** Lies And Statistics'.
A J Ayer, 'Language, Truth And Logic'.
Stephan Schiffman, 'Cold Calling Techniques'.
Stephen Pinker, 'The Language Instinct'.
S Morris Engel, 'Fallacies And Pitfalls Of Language' (brilliant, highly recommended, a masterpiece of anaylsis and enjoyable writing which goes light years beyond 'Wonder Words'). (And I write as someone who admires 'Wonder Words' tremendously!)
www.ianrowland.com . Working Magic.
sludge
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milton keynes, england
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Wow, thanks guys!

David, maybe in time I'll be able to make crime figures go down too Smile

Ian, thank you very very much Smile
berseus
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Sweden (live in London)
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Thanks for the book suggestions. I really appreciate reading about sources of information other people find interesting.

As a bonus most of these are available from my local library.

Thanks again
/ Karl

Looks like I stopped lurking... Smile
"How often I found where I should be going only by setting out for somewhere else." - R. Buckminster Fuller
asmayly
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San Antonio, Texas
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Is "Miracles of Suggestion" and "X" by Knepper 2 more sources (or are these extractions from WW)?

Does anyone have a review of these 2 works?

-Thanks,
Asmayly
magus
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Huntington Beach, Ca
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In an old lecture, Dick Zimmerman did a brilliant production of 40 (or so) coins from his bare hands after being closely examined by a spectator onstage.
The method was largly linguistic and about 20 years ahead of Knepper.
Contact Mr Zimmerman for copies of the notes.
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Allen Gittelson
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San Francisco
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Some other good books beyond the books that are often considered "magic books" are several books by Richard Bandler & John Grinder.
The Structure of Magic (NLP and lots about words and language)
The Structure of Magic II (the sequel to the previous book)
Trance-Formations (NLP & hypnosis)
These guys have several other books which are also fascinating and helpful. Among them are the Patterns of Milton Erikson and more.

Others are:
Ormond McGill's - The New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism.

Also, Peek Performances does talk a bit about linguistic deception, but better than that, it shows the power of words by using them in its writting. Read the book very carefully and you may discover that everything is written in such a way as to have specific results in the mind of the reader. This same technique is used in many of the Bandler & Grinder books, though many of them are transcriptions of spoken appearances.

In thoughts (and words),
Allen
xersekis
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Sorry for the blatant plug but my own "How to get people to do what you want..." Audio program with manual is wonderful for learning how to use language to great effect. No effects - just learning linguistics and how to persuade - useful for mentalist and for selling your show. Currently, however we are sold out. Visit http://www.idea-seminars.com for further info.

Enjoy!
Rex
Scott Cram
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For tricks in which language is the main gimmick, check out Kolossal Killer and Killer Konceptions. The use of language in these effects is subtle, but effective. As a matter of fact, the use of language in Kolossal Killer makes the effect harder to figure out, even though the language IS the main method!

Along with the other language reading recommendations, I'd like to suggest that you check out the "Language" and "Subjectivity" sections of The Certainty Site. It's a philosophical site, so the reading is somewhat heavy, but overall, it's very well written.
Andy Leviss
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I'm in the midst of a book aimed primarily at hypnotherapists (it's on Ericksonian Hypnosis), called Solution-Oriented Hypnosis, by William O'Hanlon and Michael Martin, that is a great and easily readable source for these techniques.

It's easy to see the parts of Erickson's work that became part (not all mind you, but part) of Wonder Words; tons of stuff on presuppositions, linking, splitting, etc.

It's quite interesting to read, if you're willing to make the effort to figure out for yourself how these techniques apply to mentalism (and I do suggest a familiarity with Wonder Words first, it'll ease the transition :o)
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
Huw Collingbourne
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Devon, UK
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Quote:
On 2002-03-13 14:34, Ian Rowland wrote:
A few starters:

Vance Packard, 'The Hidden Persuaders' (the mother of all modern media analysis).
David Ogilvy, 'Ogilvy on Advertising' (a brilliantly written masterclass on misdirection).
Michael Wheeler, 'Lies, *** Lies And Statistics'.
A J Ayer, 'Language, Truth And Logic'.
Stephan Schiffman, 'Cold Calling Techniques'.
Stephen Pinker, 'The Language Instinct'.
S Morris Engel, 'Fallacies And Pitfalls Of Language' (brilliant, highly recommended, a masterpiece of anaylsis and enjoyable writing which goes light years beyond 'Wonder Words'). (And I write as someone who admires 'Wonder Words' tremendously!)

Ian - I'm intrigued by your list of books. As someone who's spent his life manipulating words for money (I did an MA in English and have subsequently frittered away my life in journalism - with occasional excursions into publishing, broadcasting, editing and other areas of professional lying) I like to think I'm pretty good at turning words to my own advantage. However, I'm always keen to learn a new trick or two.

If you were to recommend one book from the above list which would it be? (yes, yes, I know this is an unfair question. Just pretend I'm Sue Lawley and I'm only letting you take one to your desert island...)

best wishes
Huw
Gary
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Market Harborough, UK
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A blitz NLP course might be a useful investment. Acting classes perhaps? If acting is 90% voice, this is then significant for the mentalist as your performance rises or falls both on what you say and how you say it.

A good actor should be able to make the telephone directory interesting, so the performer of strong mental magic should shamelessly explore and exploit a number of techniques and find what works for him.

I have found from a personal perspective, the longer I have been involved in mentally oriented magic, the more pared down and simplified my approach has become. I believe you have to find out who you are and then build on that.

Kentons books are helpful to a point, but he makes it clear that there is no magic formula. It's what works for you.

If you are in the mood for some blistering linguistics in the form of entertainment, look out for the video or dvd of the movie 'Dangerous Liaisons' with Glenn Close and John Malkovich. It's a cinema readaption of a stage play and beautifully illustrates the power of language over people in an unforgettable way.
"I can see clearly now, the brain has gone"
- Anon
Xiqual
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Upper left quadrant
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Quote:
On 2002-08-05 13:54, rex sikes wrote:
Sorry for the blatant plug but my own "How to get people to do what you want..." Audio program with manual is wonderful for learning how to use language to great effect.


Rex!!!
Please don't apologise. Your "Attitude activator" with it's "I wonder" formula
has done so much for me and my wife.
Although the tape is a hypnotic tape, I find that the language patterns are easily accessed after listening.
All your products are first rate.
I also like those playing cards that have language patterns on them. Zebo cards?
Great stuff.
Cheers,
James
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
xersekis
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James,

Thank you for the kind words. That was indeed the goal behind my construction of the Attitude Activator - to have the listener learn the process to be able to do it on their own and be inventive with it. Yes, it is heavy on language patterns and linguistic twists - all of which the listener can learn to utilize through using the AA.I am so please you and your wife enjoyed it and found it beneficial.

It is also nice to find somone on this list - like yourself - who is aware of it.

Best wishes, stay in touch and if you'd like to share with me how you both have utilized it for yourself, here or in private email, I would love to hear about it.

Warmest regards,
Rex
MichelAsselin
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20th century, 3rd dimension
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Quote:
On 2002-05-07 13:08, magus wrote:
In an old lecture, Dick Zimmerman did a brilliant production of 40 (or so) coins from his bare hands after being closely examined by a spectator onstage.
The method was largly linguistic and about 20 years ahead of Knepper.
Contact Mr Zimmerman for copies of the notes.


I saw Mr Zimmerman do this effect twice, and the problem is that the participant's response - on stage - was lukewarm. For that kind of effect to sell, the participant's response must be proportional to the effect taking place.
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
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