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Irving Quant Regular user 104 Posts |
Dear youth of magic,
Here is something for free that will help make your magic strong and better. This thing alone will give you a ton of advice by itself! These are the things that only few magicians, if at all, will tell you about. I am talking about the real secret of magic. PM me for more information and a link to the article I am taking this off in a month, so be sure to read it while it is there! Also, feel free to discuss it here and ask me any questions. I stay busy all the time, so it might be difficult for me to answer a billion questions. Just be patient. All the best, IQ |
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Blackghost83 New user Selden, NY 36 Posts |
Irving,
Wow. Wow wow wow wow wow. That is one incredible peice of writing you have there. Thank you because I love to read, and I love magic. This was as good as it gets for me. once again thank you. Sincerely, Jason
When asked, "Would anybody play cards with you today?" Ricky Jay simply responded, "Sure."
"Silly People." |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
What a wonderful article. Thank you very much. I hope the younger people take your advice to heart.
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
That's great Mr.Quant,thank you.
There is one thing that I have never understood though. A great actor can take someone elses script and bring it to life.But in magic we always hear how a certain persons presentation or script will not fit someone else.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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cinemagician Inner circle Phila Metro Area 1094 Posts |
Wonderful article.
I wish my experiences were the same as yours. I have had some experiences meeting great people as a teen and more recently as an adult and I have to say that the "mentor thing" only works when you and the more experienced magician are (for lack of a better term) "on the same wavelength". As a teen I met a gentleman who was a sort of mentor and friend of Teller's and maybe I should have done more to connect and remain in contact with this individual, (my fault) but as I got a bit older--- magic sort of faded away for me and so did he. Also- as a teen- there were many guys in the Phila Metro area who could have been better mentors to me. I can't fault them but they should have reached out a bit more than they did. I doubt many have had as positive an experience as you have. Most people in magic don't really care about anyone but themselves. Most are ill-equiped / ignorant when it comes to spotting young talent. The student will invariably find that the mentor is equiped with one (or if lucky more than one) set of attributes that meets his needs while terribly deficient in other areas that could be of great advantage to the student. A mentor at the right place and at the right time can change a young persons life forever as it concerns their development in magic. I have had the pleasure to have been helped by and been influenced by a few good guys in my time; but there never existed the right match for me in terms of intellect/ understanding and downright ability ... that would have really contributed to any significant growth for me as a young magician. And in cases where I did find such a "match" the prospective mentor was unresponsive. To those that have helped me and provided good advice THEN and NOW I am very, very thankfull... And to those who did not when it was needed...doom on you! And shame on you for being too blind to see and or too egotistical to care. I have had the fortune to have received some advice, help and inspiration from some good people then as well as now-- who were/ are a help but in all totality I feel at a loss to be able to declare any one person a "mentor". I am currently very lucky to have some good friends and good friendly resources and aquaintences in magic. (and THANKS so much!) BUT- As far as mentors are concerned I guess will forever fly the black flag...the Jolly Rodger... Sincerely, Mark M Walsh "The Player without an ally"
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...
William Butler Yeats |
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resshin New user 53 Posts |
Irving, thank you very much for taking the time and effort to write this article. The things I have learned from it in a short amount of time is priceless; I will surely refer back to it again and again in the future.
You have my sincere gratitude. |
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cinemagician Inner circle Phila Metro Area 1094 Posts |
Let me say again THANKS to those who were kind to the youngest kid at the local meetings and DOOM ON YOU to those who shuned him, were rude, unresponsive and aloof...all of you could have helped much more than you did...
I will never forget the kind people in magic THEN as well as NOW, but I will also never forget those who would not give me the time of day!
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...
William Butler Yeats |
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Cohiba Special user Michigan 749 Posts |
Cinemagician, your outlook on life is depressing.
Mentors are to be pursued. If you want the help, you need to pursue them, not the other way around. Mentors are rare. Good mentors are extremely rare. Not everyone who's got a little more experience than you is mentor material. And the ones that are, aren't perfect. If you get a mentor that's "terribly deficient in other areas", so what? At least he or she is helping you out in some areas. Your story sounds like a student with flaws is looking for and expecting a teacher who's perfect. If you re-read the article, you see that a lot of what makes a mentor valuable is life skills, things with nothing to do with magic. If they're very deficient in key areas, then they aren't mentor material. I understand it can be frustrating to not get the help your looking for, but to wish doom on those who didn't help you is childish and wrong, in my opinion. Finally, to say that most people in magic care about no one but themselves is a slap in the face to the Magic Café and what it stands for. There's egotistical people in every area of life, just as there are great people in every area of life. I'm not trying to be harsh, just trying to help you realize that it's not what happens to you, it's how you react to what happens to you that counts. Good luck - you'll find what you're looking for - just make sure you're looking for the right thing. |
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jonhall19 New user Salt Lake City 68 Posts |
I think its pretty good writing. I personally think that a mentor tends to hamper down ones style, as opposed to just getting opinions from others.
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resshin New user 53 Posts |
Irving, thank you very much for taking the time and effort to write this article. The things I have learned from it in a short amount of time is priceless; I will surely refer back to it again and again in the future.
You have my sincere gratitude. |
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Irving Quant Regular user 104 Posts |
First of all thank you all for your responses. I would appreciate it a lot if you pass this on to others. Let your friends know that this article is there to help them out. If they have any questions they want to ask, any doubts, or guidance, they can write on this post and I will do my best to either help you or tell you who can help.
Believe me that getting a mentor, the right one or the wrong one, will always be helpful. If you are there by yourself, you don't have anyone to put that umbrella over you when it rains. Metaphorically, you might not even know where to buy an umbrella to begin with! So regardless whether or not this mentor will change your life, you will always have something to learn. Even if you are not young, you can always find a mentor. Mentors don't have to be the stereotypical image of an older man with a younger student. It is all about learning from one another and improving. Quote:
On 2008-10-09 20:50, jonhall19 wrote: English is my second language, and even though I have been in the US for seven years now I still have some problems with certain words and sayings. "Hamper down" I am going to assume that it means "to restrain" or "to hold back". It is true that a mentor can hold back a style because of their own train of thought in regards to what a style should be like. I get that all the time. But a good mentor is able to see your best attributes, and helps you in finding ways to use them. Eventually, as my mentor said to me once, "you become your own master". I'll give you a personal example: I was told that my youth was going to be a big problem for me when proposing projects (I am 21 now, and I was told this when I was 18). To be honest, it is when I come in cold. The only thing that saves me, according to my friends who have told me and from what I noticed thanks to their attention, is my demeanor. I don't act 21, and many times don't talk or think like my age either. This is of course a necessity for me since I had to survive in a new culture and a new life. So the advice given to me by everyone that gives me advice was: "Use your youth and your demeanor to show that you are talented. It is something that naturally comes out now because they don't expect you to speak the way you do and much less behave the way you do. So you become something of interest". As a consequence, I am now able to interact with high-profile people and gain their respect and I don't look like some kid showing what he can do. I am a friend. The audience sees a young man who is not a young man inside so they assume "he probrably knows something we don't". More importantly, regardless if this is true or not, they see "a talented young man". Because of this, I am able to go out to dinner with CEOs (which I did a few hours ago actually...just a quick brag there) of corporations and have a grown-up conversation with them. But more importantly I have a natural interest from them. By the end of the night, they take me as one of them instead of "a friend of my son". Get the idea? But this is not an act. By all means I don't pretend to be this way. I am this way fortunately or unfortunately. But this is something that my mentors saw in me as a natural attribute. Something that they didn't have, so they won't hold it back from me and my style. They will enhance it. That is what a good mentor does. So if I do magic that is not in my mentor's style, which as you know is very poetic and in my opinion the best style out there, its ok because it is part of an attribute that naturally is being used. You can't stop being you right? Quote:
On 2008-10-09 19:26, Markymark wrote: This all gives a bigger definition to the saying "be yourself". As you saw above, you should go with who you are in regards to your strongest attributes. (Read the above to see what I mean) Here are my thoughts about this, and they might be right or wrong so don't take them to heart. It is possible to portray a style in the superficial manner. When an actor takes on a roll,he or she went through a screening process to see if "he or she is the character" (an audition). You can't have Leo Dicaprio as The Batman, and you sure can't have Christian Bale in The Titanic (he just doesn't have that boyish look that Leo has). So if I were to have an audition for the role of "Lance Burton", perhaps I could find somebody that is the same age and who can act like him. But not everyone can play Lance Burton, and more importantly not everyone can play you. You are the best character that you have mastered. Even an actor will tell you that is true. Why should I try to be Rene, even though I wish I could be, when I have my own character I can mold? I don't have the age and wisdom that Rene has, I don't have the strength in his eyes that he has when he looks an the audience, and I don't have just one hand! So what in the world makes me think I can pull of "Rene Lavand" as well as Rene Lavand does it? (e.g. Tom Hanks playing Hannibal Lecter.It will be "Tom Hank's version of Hannibal Lecter" but it can't be done exactly the way Anthony Hopkins brilliantly did.) My philosophy behind "be yourself" is: what if myself is not good enough? Then work on yourself. Make that character of yours become better by going through the experiences that you want your character (you) to have. Remember, this is you, so ask yourself "how can I better my life to become a more interesting person to be around with?". You might already be interesting and you don't know it! So look at your life and see if you are. You are the writer of the script, so make it good. All of these things you could discuss with a mentor. Questions like these are the questions I asked my mentors. The difference is that with a mentor, you get to actually work on the issue instead of discussion only. All the best, IQ |
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cinemagician Inner circle Phila Metro Area 1094 Posts |
I'm glad for you that one of your mentors was someone great like Rene Levand---
but for the majority of us- no such luck! My "mentors" are more or less mental constructs- in fact some of them are dead. I was told (this is when I was working in the film production business)that you "choose your mentors" --- Well- no one ever chose me and that's because I was too *** good to be worthy of their tutilidge The Poet William Butler Yeats had this to say-- ..."the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity"- that is from a poem entitled "The second coming" Dude- I wish I had a mentor like Rene Levand- but I don't and I didn't Cohiba sez--- "to say that most people in magic care about no one but themselves is a slap in the face to the Magic Café and what it stands for". And even here (on the Café) in SOME cases there are many who have taken little time or consideration of my posts and PM's. In fact I have received PMs from other members about how some here have "shunned" or failed to respond to videos and/ or ideas submitted to these "elite" (and ass kissed) members --- those who would be mentors if they had the class. Trust me they don't and they don't care about you--- they only care about pushing their ideology or adgenda ( and here I include some of the bigest most "respected" aka ass-kissed contributors) I know this from correspondence from "other brothers" on this wonderful forum. No one important will read this post anyway, since it has been re-directed to the "New to Magic Forum" no Café member of consequence bothers to stop by this section other than to oggle the naiveity of those who post in this section. My Name is Mark Walsh and I am a Magician... I don't know all there is to know about magic but I do know some things... Fly the black flag! Be Captain Blood! DYS!!!
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...
William Butler Yeats |
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The Old Man Regular user 137 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-09 19:47, cinemagician wrote: :eek: Most? As in the majority? |
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cinemagician Inner circle Phila Metro Area 1094 Posts |
I don't know "Old Man" but I may have over done it again. Remember the worst are full off... (before you answer see above)
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...
William Butler Yeats |
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Irving Quant Regular user 104 Posts |
You don't have to have your own Rene Lavand. Heck, he doesn't even have to be of name. If you consider him to know more than you, then he could be one. I agree, some of the guys "with knowledge" are not very helpful. But to be honest, you can't find a good mentor over the internet. In my opinion, you have to see him face to face and actually spend time with him. I am more than sure that there are magicians in your city who you can meet with. Tell them,without the negativity you have expressed here about others in the past, about your desire to find a mentor. Ask them questions, but be friends with them first. Nobody will be your mentor if they don't like you for who you are first.
Big question to answer: are you going to be worth this person's time? Not as a student, but as person. I hope this helps. IQ |
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kentfgunn Inner circle Merritt Island FL 1639 Posts |
Mark,
Not everyone falls into a mentor. I don't think you need one to advance. I think Irving was fortunate, beyond measure. I agree with 99% of the things you wrote. I think many magic clubs do a horrible job of being inclusive and treating the younger magicians as the future magicians they are. You obviously did not get the support as a brother magician you needed at more than one point. That sucks. My three best friends, these days, are all magicians. They're all at least twenty years younger than me. I'm NOT anybodies mentor, in magic. I have had friendships with other magicians, through which I've grown (I hope) in my performing abilities. I grow through the exchange of ideas with other magi. A mentor would've helped. In Ogden, Utah, in the early seventies, I was the best magician I knew. (Little competition!) The guy who got me started was a mentor though. He gave me a copy of Stars of Magic. I think Irving is completely and absolutely off-base. He got lucky, or, just as likely is a very charismatic young man. Some people, like say, you and I, are just edgy enough that mentors will not appear for us. I actually think adults can learn all they need from the literature. If you are involved in other performing arts, you already know much of what eludes most in magic. You mentioned before a connection to the moving images side of theater. You don't need a mentor, you need to practice more and shoot magic videos for folks who are good magicians and don't know stuff about video/film. I'd bet a dollar you are supposed to be another magician's mentor, Mark. If you've got a magic club you like, go to it. See if you are already at the point where you could significantly aid a younger magician. Break the cycle! Maybe a really good magician needs a videographer to learn from. Heck, where do you live, I need a videographer!!! I'm not even a very good magician! That's the ticket Mark, I'll turn this rant into my advantage! Click here and tell me how to get this thing on video better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNO3obSA7M Who needs a mentor, not me! |
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Irving Quant Regular user 104 Posts |
Thank you all for your comments.I appreciate them.
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Mr Roy New user 56 Posts |
That was A nice Article, Sad to say that I don't have any mentor, I am a member of a local magic club but we are all somewhat in same age range. But I will search for the "WHO". Thanks Irving.
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Irving Quant Regular user 104 Posts |
Well Mr. Roy, the reason I wrote this article was not to show off my mentors. It was so you could see the mentors I have had because I searched for them. It is not luck that I got helped, but rather that I approached them. This article is for you to see the benefits of approaching a person you think could be a mentor to you, even if they are not in the same city as you are, and encourage you to go on the search. I don't know it all, and by all means I don't claim to. But I do extend the helping hand, regardless whether it is 100% helpful or not, to anyone who seeks it (young or old, experienced or not)
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-10-10 03:18, kentfgunn wrote: Nail. Head. Impact.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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