Thanks to Ony, I recenltly acquired a Mack figure...

http://wanluthemagician.blogspot.com/200......-my.html

A beautiful example from the shop of Theo Mack & Son (Charlie Mack), dates to circa 1918, and was owned by noted vaudeville vent, John Schaibley. This was one of John's back up heads to his main Mack figure, "Woody." There was a time in America when just about every pro working vaudeville used Mack figures. Charlie McCarthy came out of the Mack shop, and the beautiful example offered here has that classic "Mack look" that made the Macks the most sought after carvers of their day! Many of the great figure makers that followed, including Alex Cameron, Ken Spencer, and Frank Marshall, all learned their craft working in Charlie Mack's shop!

In addition to the standard moving mouth and turning head, this figure is also equipped with a right eye winker.

Another feature which makes this figure particularly collectable, is that it was repainted and wigged by Frank Marshall. Frank's business card is still tacked inside the head!


I'm really not into old figures and old vents but all of a sudden I find myself trying to check out stories of old vents in that era

Anyone want to share some stories about Theodore Mack and son Charlie Mack...and Frank Marshall

Wanlu if you go to our web site, and click on Tribute pages you can scroll down to both Theodore Mack and Frank Marshall and there is much to read about these great figure makers. Also if you sign up as a member of the site you also get the ability to listen to the recordings of Frank Marshall himself talking about his figures. They are great and very informational.
Dan

The book "Other Voices" by Stanley Burns has interesting stories about the Macks and Frank Marshall, too. It's one of my favorite reads.

Thanks Dan and Ony

Mackoy in UNTV Channel 37

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Mr Bob Ladd sent me a book for FREE Thanks Bob
The book is "Memoirs of a Ventriloquist" by John Schaibley

Mr Schaibley was the original owner of my Mack figure

I found out that the maker of my Mack was not Theo Mack but his son Charlie Mack. At least in the book it says that John asked Charlie to make figures for him. However, it also stated that Charlie was very busy doing other things so its also possible that Charlie accepted the job from John but asked Frank Marshall to do the work because during that time, Frank Marshall was already working for the Macks

Inside the head...the card of Frank Marshall is still attached, he could have attached this anytime between 1920 and 1930 when he repainted it. By that time, Frank Marshall has taken over the shop of the Macks.

What's interesting is in the head, there are hand written notes, dates, place... the earliest is May 1919...would anyone know what these mean? Im guessing its for repairs what I'm curious about is the note that says 1st. was it the time it was made or the first time it was repaired?

Your guess is as good as mine...but the topic might just be interesting

Notes inside the head: As noted by the former owner Ony Carcamo

1st time
May 1919
Chi-ILL
2022 Mich Ave

2nd
2112 5th Ave
Alabama
12-16-1919

3rd
11-5-20
72 W 51 St.
NY City

4th
612 Oregon St.
Lafayette St.-Inn
Oct 14, 1922

That's fascinating. Did you ask Tom Ladshaw or Dan Willinger about the possible meaning of the dates?

I can only guess... these dates can be dates when the figure's head was opened for repair/restring/etc. Remember that at that time, vents were doing enormous amounts of shows in vaudevilles each week and they'd usually treat their figures as "tools." So the possibility of figures needing regular repairs was not unusual.

In more than 2 years that I used the said Mack, I replaced the string 2 times.

Interesting. I know in small time vaudeville they sometimes did as many as 6 a day. Sideshows and dime museums had acts running continuously, the vents and other acts might have to perform every 20 minutes or half hour all day long. Of course they'd only do 5 minutes or so, but still, can you imagine a 24 show day? In big time vaudeville, among the benefits to the performers who made it that far, besides fame and money, was the reduced performance schedule - only two shows a day. Despite the rigors of the schedule and the travel, I still think I'd have loved being a vaudevillian.

Have to agree that the dates inside the head are repair dates. Not an uncommon thing. I have a few Marshall figures that have repair dates in them and then resigned by Frank Marshall himself. Amazing what you can find inside the head of an antique figure!!
Dan

I was wondering why Mr Marshall painted the lips that way

What if I have it refurbished by Mr Guyll and maybe Bill Nelson or Tim Selberg...

Im sure the figure will have an entirely new look

Stage lights were very harsh during the those times, and that may be the reason why Marshall painted his figures that way. Marshall invented the "orange" paint job to make the figures look great on stage.

Hartz also painted many of his figures like Marshall's.

Ony,

What do you think about the Mack being rapainted by Bill Nelson or Tim Selberg?

I got an interesting email from vent historian Mr Bob Isaacson today...




Wanlu

Wanlu per the dating inside the head starting with a repair of 1919 means the head was made earlier and therefore is without question made by Mack. When Marshall took over the business in the 1920's he of course had all the master heads ( duplicarver heads) and made that same head although he had refined the ears a bit. So just remeber this is still a Mack you own and not a Marshall.
Dan

Wanlu,
I haven't seen or heard about a Mack repainted by Selberg or Nelson... but it can be an interesting idea, especially with Nelson's fabulous paint job.

Figure makers have their own distinct styles in painting figures. Those who are adventurous--like Marshall, Nelson, and Hartz--painted their figures extraordinarily non-humanlike (Marshall and Hartz used "orange" as skin tone) to make them look great and stand-out even with stage lights.

Selberg, Detweiler, Lovik, and others (including myslf) paint their figures with humanlike skin tones to make their figures more realistic.

By the way, it is really difficult to pinpoint who EXACTLY made a Mack figure, because the Mack shop employed many artists who did their figures, one of them was Frank Marshall. Whether or not Marshall or Charlie Mack or Theodore Mack made the figure, at that time, it's still a Mack figure because it came out of the Mack shop.

This was the same situation that Charlie McCarthy, a Mack figure, went through.

I agree that it is still a Mack figure...Thanks Dan and Ony

I'm just saying that this one was made by Frank Marshall under the style and method of the Macks...John Schaibley mentioned Frank Marshall in his book.

Check this out...

Memoirs of a Ventriloquist
Page 9
1918

"The figure with one winking eye cost, I believe, $27. although I had other figures made, I used that figure all the time of my professional span of fourty years. I used the spare heads only when the 1918 figure was in the shop for an overhaul. Charlie Mack figures are still considered among the finest."

Page130
1923
"I left Ruth Ann in Chicago but took Frank Marshall. the man who made the ventriloquial figures with me."

I have reasons to believe that my Mack just like Chralie McCarthy was made by Frank Marshall under the Mack's shop.

Thus justifies the Mack-Marshall title

There is no proof anywhere that Frank Marshall made Charlie McCarthy. In fact just the oposite. Edgar Bergen said many times it was made by the Macks. When someone works for someone else the creations that come from the owner are his , even if an apprentice did them. Wanlu PLEASE you can't make something into something else just because you want it to be. Your head is a Mack. It was redone by Marshall and that is as far as it goes. As I stated before I will state again your head was made prior to the first repair date which is 1918 therefore it had to be made by Mack. Sorry but this is the truth plain and simple!!
Dan

That is your opinion Dan...

Mr Schaibley and Mr Isaacson think otherwise.

You said you don't like it and I respect that but you should also respect the facts...the facts are evident...I am only trying to show them so potential buyers would know. If you don't like it, others might.

Mr Bob Isaacson knew Mr Schaibley personally...Mr Schaibley knew Charlie Mack and Frank Marshall personally...if they say my Mack was made by Frank Marshall under the Mack shop, with all due respect to you Dan, but I would rather believe them. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Yes the head is a Mack and I have stated that many times over, but the new email that I got from Mr Isaacson and the new info I got from Mr Schaibley's book are good enough for me to believe that this was made by Frank Marshall.

I'm saying this because this is what I believe in based on facts and not because I just want it to be. I'm happy this is a Mack head repainted my Marshall...now new information show that this was made my Frank Marshall himself, that makes more happy. We cant tell if the information is true but I base my statement on Mr Isaacson's email and Mr Schaibley's memoirs.

I will say this again, based on the email from Mr Bob Isaacson and Mr Schaibley's memoirs, this is a Mack head made by Frank Marshall when he was still working at the Mack Shop. He also repainted this when he took over the Mack shop thus the Marshall card in the head.

I respect that Dan does not like the figure...YLNM Dan appraised the figure at in interesting price based on what he thinks,"plain and simple." I'm so sorry but THAT I don't respect.

Obviously, I'm trying to sell the figure. So Dan, if you don't like it then it's not for you.

But please don't undermine the facts just because you don't like the figure.

Im selling it for a little profit, plain and simple and if you don't like the figure, others might. If it does not sell, fine.

To tell you the truth, I don't think it will sell by the way the figure has been discussed...and I really don't mind keeping it.

I just want to set the facts straight...which according to Mr Bob Isaacson who knew Mr Schaibley personally who knew Charlie Mack and Frank Marshall personally, this is a Mack head made by Frank Marshall when he was still employed by the Macks and repainted by Frank Marshall when he took over the Mack shop.

Now that's a great head

Is it a collectors' item? I can't imagine anyone saying it's not, well actually I can

Check out this GREAT VENT SITE I found...it shows a Marshall Catalog...and a short biography on Frank Marshall by Mr Bob Isaacson.

http://ventriloquistcentral.com/ventrilo......ndex.htm

Marshall Catalog:

Page 3... shows Mr Marshall's list "A few of our Leading Profesionals using our figures" which inlcudes Ray and Ann Raymond a.k.a Ruth Ann and John Shaibley

Page 4... check out the third figure.

I also have a picture of an early Marshall than looks almost exactly like my Mack I''ll try to post it.

Check out Dan's great collection...his earliest Marshall.

http://www.ventriloquistcentral.com/mars......_m_r.htm

Now check out my Mack-Marshall

http://www.puppetsandprops.com/Images/mack1.jpg

Wanlu I never said I didn't like your figure I only am stating that you can't make it something that it isn't. as you said PLAIN & SIMPLE. Also there is a big difference in my early Marshall's face and yours, which is a stock MACK, face. I am also not disputing that Schibly purchased from Frank or had Frank do restorations. I am only talking about your head which in fact Mr Isaacson also sold as a Mack head repainted by Marshall. He never claimed it to be a Marshall. Again I reiterate DATES!!!

As matter of fact I do like your head and I would never repaint it again by any modern painter no matter how nice it might make it because then you would devalue it even more. Believe me the fact that Frank's touch is there is a must. Had this Mack been repainted by anyone else would have been a travesty. It is painted to use on stage as Marshall's paint is the best. Use him, enjoy him and let him make money for you and some day down the road he will certainly find his way to another.

Wanlu thanks also for making refence to my web site. Believe me it takes a lot of work to find all the material and get it posted for everyone to see and I appreciate you listing the links in your emails.
Dan

Thanks Dan

We can always agree to disagree but at the end of the day, it's our love for the art that matters

I agree with you, I don't think having the head repainted is a good idea...your site is a geat source if information about ventriloquism in general...thanks again

Introducing Mackoy Franks The great vaudeville magician

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Notice the IBM pin on his tux? He's from IBM Ring 322, Magfi

The Great Mackoy with The Boss, Rannie Raymundo

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Wanlu I love the way he looks but couldn't you find a better top hat? That plastic thing ruins the great look IN MY OPINION of course. He would have been better looking without it.
Dan

Hi Dan,

I already got a tophat from Ebay Hopefully next episode, Mackoy will be wearing a nicer hat.

I just wanted to estabish the character of a magician so I had to use that lousy hat...without the hat, the costume would be exactly what my old man figure wore the week before

I'l post some new pictures as soon as the new hat arrives...what do you think about getting a monocle? or are the eyeglasses just fine?

Thanks again Dan, as usual your observations are noted