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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Can anyone DATE these P&L cups? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Levity
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I've just received a lovely set of P&L copper traditionals with silver painted interiors which I bought at Martinka's latest auction. They're in great condition and stack beautifully, better than any other traditionals I have in the collection, with no wobble at all. They're just shy of 3 1/2" high and 2 1/2" id.

Can anyone tell me how old they might be?

Thanks

Geoffrey

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Bill Palmer
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Are these cups hallmarked? The listing did not make that clear.

It is really impossible to date the manufacture of a set of P&L cups with any accuracy. I have sets that I know go back to the 1930's and sets that are as recent as the 1950's. They are basically the same.

They were basically the standard of the industry until the Paul Fox cups became the norm.
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Pete Biro
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They are beauties.
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kentfgunn
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Geoffrey,

I've had some strange dates, but since you asked, I'll help out.
Send the cups to me, I'll take them to a movie and buy them dinner.

(Can't believe I got that one in before Bill or Pete!)
Levity
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Ha! Kent, I was waiting to see how long someone would take the pun! Good one, but they're very particular about what they eat. Smile

They don't have any hallmarks unfortunately, but thanks, Mr. Palmer, for the time vicinity.

Yes, Mr. Biro, they are little beauties & the perfect size for my hands. They will sit splendidly next to those great Bosco cups you helped me out with a few months back. Thanks again.

Geoffrey
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Levity
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Quote:
On 2008-10-20 00:33, Bill Palmer wrote:

It is really impossible to date the manufacture of a set of P&L cups with any accuracy. I have sets that I know go back to the 1930's and sets that are as recent as the 1950's. They are basically the same.



So when did P&L stop making cups like this? Some time in the 1950s then? Pardon my ignorance here--maybe I should buy that big P&L book...

G
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Bill Palmer
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As far as I know, they made cups until they closed their doors in the early 1960's after Tod Petrie passed away. That would be about 1961 or 1962. Abbott's may have owned the chucks for the cups and may have made some sets, as well, for a few years after that. In the late 1970's Don Esposito in Florida got the equipment and reissued a few items, but I don't think he made any of the regular cups.

The chucks and hallmark dies are owned by someone in the New England area.

A rather large number of their cups got out without hallmarks. Some of these may have been made on commission. I know that Harry Stanley had some cups called "super cups," that were either P&L cups or close copies.

P&L made these in brass, copper, aluminum and steel. The steel ones were generally chrome plated. I have never seen a set of the steel ones that were hallmarked. This may have been to save wear on the die. The copper ones and the brass ones were sometimes nickel plated and sometimes chrome plated. There were also some gold plated ones issued.
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Mobius303
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I have seen and remember the cups Don made in 1976. They were really pretty nice.
Levity your cups are cleaner on the inside than the ones made by Don in the 70's.

Mobius
Richard Evans
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Levity - I have a set exactly the same that came from Harry Stanley in England. As Bill says, the Stanley cups were probably P&L. Great cups.
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Levity
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Thanks, Mr. Palmer, for that valuable information. Much appreciated; it all helps make the collecting so much more interesting for me.

Thanks for that info, too, Mobius.

Thanks for sharing that, Mr. Evans. They are great cups...I was using them all last night. The Ammar fake fruits make beautiful final loads, even the potato when it goes in right.

Geoffrey
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Bill Palmer
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Glad to help. My first set of serious cups were copper P&L cups, hallmarked. They had the same silver-grey paint on the inside. This stuff never quite seemed to dry completely! I sold those cups and got the Tannen's Stubbies instead.
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fortasse
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Levity :

It's good to hear you're USING these cups, beautifully preserved and pristine though they may be, rather than just leaving them on a shelf to look at.

Fortasse
Levity
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Hey, Fortasse, I'm using them VERY carefully--no wand thumping etc. They are a sheer delight to hold. I love using old magic apparatus! Smile

Geoffrey Smile
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Levity
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Quote:
On 2008-10-20 19:37, Bill Palmer wrote:
Glad to help. My first set of serious cups were copper P&L cups, hallmarked. They had the same silver-grey paint on the inside. This stuff never quite seemed to dry completely! I sold those cups and got the Tannen's Stubbies instead.


Thankfully, the interiors of these beauties are completely dry and haven't flaked or anything.

G
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Bill Palmer
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They probably won't flake. I think I read in the P&L book that they used extremely high quality enamel for this.
"The Swatter"

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fortasse
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Bill : I own several sets of P&L cups. One of them is chrome-over-copper (I think). The interior of the cups has an orange-colored tint near the bottom. Is this the copper shining through (although the colour is definitely more orange than copper)? Haven't seen this in any other chrome-over-copper cups.

Fortasse
Bill Palmer
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It could be. It could also be due to some kind of flashing.

The easiest way to tell chrome from nickel is to look at the cast of the plating. Chrome has a bluish cast, while nickel is slightly yellowish.

Jake could probably answer that question more accurately than I can.
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fortasse
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Bill : Many thanks.

Fortasse
jdknight
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I have a set a little more tarnished than yours. I found mine at a flea market priced at 20 Bucks. I offered 10 because It was only "3 Cups" instead of 4.
Levity
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Did you get them for $10? Smile

G
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