|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
I respectfully disagree..., but offer a detailed (and longish) reason as to why.
The fact that many of these tricks don't involve sleight of hand has absolutely no bearing on their effectiveness for laymen. In fact, many of these tricks maintain their power because they don't have anything to do with standard card sleights. For example, when Walter Scott sat down in New York with the "inner circle", and demonstrated for them his ability to deal himself a perfect bridge hand while wearing a blindfold, he demonstrated some techniques that even well posted and well practiced cardmen usually don't have in their arsenal (the ability to deal the peg in front of those who know what it is). Nick Trost has within the pages of "The Card Magic of Nick Trost" an effect which would allow any person desiring to duplicate Walter Scott's demonstration in such a way that it would be indistinguishable from it. In other words, the two tricks look identical. I've used this Trost effect at IBM ring meetings, and in front of 25 of my peers I've had them convinced that I was showing them the Walter Scott demo as it was performed in New York those many years ago. Of course I wasn't, and I also wasn't using any sleight of hand........but all of that was irrelevant even to a room full of magi who presumed they were witnessing me deal the punch perfectly. (BTW the faces of the cards are displayed, and then the deck is legitimately shuffled and cut prior to the demonstration. I do the demonstration with an actual blindfold on with the table completely surrounded by the spectators, just the way Walter Scott did his demonstration, and recorded in the famous photo with Cardini et al standing completely around the performance table ... there's nothing to hide in either effect simply because there's nothing to see). I do a legitimate punch deal in a number of tricks, some of my own devise, and some from the likes of Mike Powers and others..., but this Trost effect lets one concentrate 100% on presentation, and removes the possibility that's always present when legitimately dealing the peg that you will not be able to wind up with a perfect bridge hand, but will have to "bid 6-no trump" just to cover the possibilities that the cards may have bunched up during the shuffle. Even with edge readers like the Texan Palmettos there's a possibility that you might not pick up on each and every "bunch up" of the target cards. My point is that Nick Trosts magic in "The Card Magic of Nick Trost" is actually some of the most simple, most direct, and most powerful card magic out there..., sleights don't really enter into the discussion, nor does ones ability to pull off even the most difficult card sleights..., it's the magic in Nick's book that has to be measured. Of course to measure it, you have to do more than just read it, you have to actually go out and perform it for people. But of course, you may differ in your opinion..., I do wonder though if you realized while reading the description of the effect mentioned above you were actually reading the identical presentation (but with a different method) that Walter Scott used the night he became known as "The Phantom". Anyway, if nothing else..., perhaps I've inspired you to pick the book up again for a re-read (Full disclosure obligates me to identify myself as a huge Trost fan to begin with, but to also tell folks that there's a reason why every owner of the first edition cringed when it was announced that it was to be reprinted) |
|||||||||
panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Silverking, you said it!
I would add that the effects in this book are just as potent for a lay-audience. Trost is about performing before a live audience. It seems as if the sturm und drang dialect about sleights vs. pure effect will plague our art forever. Too bad. The Card Magic of Nick Trost, as a book, and the card magic of Nick Trost, as a philosophy, should put the argument to rest. One can love card magic without having to pay emotional tithes to knuckle-busting deities. If Ricky Jay was using a stripper deck or a false center deal during his 52 assistants gig, did it detract from his erudition and the sense of astonishment and good cheer felt by his audience? Sleights are wondrous. Great performances are wondrous. The two can go together and the two can be disconnected. What matters, when all is said and done, is the wonder.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
|||||||||
Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Panlives,
A M E N!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am really surprised at Caliban's assessment of Trost's classic, but, if Caliban's criteria for great magic is measured largely in difficult sleight of hand then it makes sense. However, I find the implication from his post that the book really holds merit ONLY for those not interested in pure sleight of hand rather disquieting, especially in light of the fact that a HUGE majority of the GREATEST in magic have created and performed such effects. Also, such an implication at least in my mind belittles Mr. Trost and other Masters of subtletly like the great Stewart James. And Caliban? I LOVE and DO sleight of hand. Many here who perform effects from Trost do sleight of hand, so, in all respect, your comment could be misconstrued as insulting. And surely you didn't mean it that way I trust? EFFECT is what counts, not the sleights!!! GACK I am TIRED of this debate!!! I wish Ted Annemann's ghost could settle this!! Ahimsa, Vlad |
|||||||||
fridoliina89 Special user 503 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-06 18:32, sohaib wrote: What is the effect Intuition? I have heard a lot of people saying its a fantastic effect but never actually knew what the effect is. |
|||||||||
Vlad_77 Inner circle The Netherlands 5829 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-04 09:46, fridoliina89 wrote: Frida, PLEASE take the leap of faith and the recommendations here of your colleagues and buy the book. I, for one, do NOT want to spoil the surprise for you. Vlad |
|||||||||
fridoliina89 Special user 503 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-04 10:28, Vlad_77 wrote: Just placed my order! I hope I will like it! |
|||||||||
KingOfDiamonds Elite user Paris 426 Posts |
You will ! Intuition is also one of my favorite effects from the book.
NEW E-BOOK! Sneak: 12 card tricks based on the same principle.
https://www.lybrary.com/rapha%c3%83%c2%abl-czaja-m-534.html?affid=3322 |
|||||||||
frimuraren12 New user 69 Posts |
I have Duffies Effotless card magic and Beams SACT series which I understand is in the same genre. How does the Trost book hold up against Duffies and Beams fantastic books?
|
|||||||||
slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
Frimuraren12,
If you enjoyed the Duffie book and the SACT series you will also enjoy and learn from the Trost Book. I have them all and they are rich in useable content. Just don't get wrapped up in debates about self-working tricks, stacked decks, sleights, etc. as the genre is the same. John
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
|||||||||
frimuraren12 New user 69 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-05-07 09:43, slowkneenuh wrote: Great. Are there more/less moves in the trost book than the other books or about the same? |
|||||||||
slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
In general, I would say more moves. But that depends on the category of the trick. For example, he breaks them down into Unique Card Effects, Coincidences, Court Cards, Gambling Tricks, Poker Deals, Predictions, Spelling Tricks, etc. The degree of moves generally depends on the category of the trick. He also has tricks with both regular decks and special decks, regular cards and special cards, etc. However, as stated in the book, his overall philosophy is "tricks that are practical, effective and easy to do". In the introduction, it mentions that "he bases his tricks on subtle moves and principles rather than difficult sleights".
John
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
|||||||||
Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
GREAT magic book! Then again, I'm a subtlty-over knuckle busters kinds guy. Call me crazy, but I actually like tricks that are performable for real people. Trosts excellent material really appeals to me.
Don't get me wrong, I love practicing difficult stuff, too. But that's all I do with the difficult stuff: practice it for my own amusement.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
|
|||||||||
panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Nick Trost seemed to understand, at some deep and intuitive level, that card magic can be elevated not by the latest mechanic’s slide, shift and pass; but rather by creating magic that feels magical.
Trost effects are staged in psychologically logical phases. Real people get the Trost approach. Hi gambling themes are among the very best ever committed to print. Break out your green felt, a round table and dive into this book. You’ll have a working repertoire and endless ideas for variation.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
|||||||||
frimuraren12 New user 69 Posts |
It says "Also included is an appendix of useful sleights and subtleties."
What sleights are explained in the book? Is there much of it? |
|||||||||
slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
Frimuraren12,
22 pages/20 items. Like most books on card magic, it introduces or revisits sleights or subtleties that are crucial to some tricks and in Trost's case not detailed within the effect itself. Some of the most basic ones are assumed to be understood prior to reading this book. If you have read all the comments in this thread, you can see it is highly recommended. If Cameron Francis endorses it, how can you go wrong? John
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
|||||||||
slowkneenuh Regular user After 5,278+ posts, only credited with 133 Posts |
Frimuraren12,
22 pages/20 items. Like most books on card magic, it introduces or revisits sleights or subtleties that are crucial to some tricks and in Trost's case not detailed within the effect itself. Some of the most basic ones are assumed to be understood prior to reading this book. If you have read all the comments in this thread, you can see it is highly recommended. If Cameron Francis endorses it, how can you go wrong? John
John
"A poor workman always blames his tools" |
|||||||||
Rennie Inner circle I think I have about 1826 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-01-15 18:08, Caliban wrote: How totally wrong one can be. From your post I can only assume you actually enjoy doing knuckle busting sleights, as opposed to using sublety. The reason being to impress your peers? As I always say, as the late great Ted Annemann said " The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not" The Card Magic of Nick Trost is the BEST card book!!! Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Books, Pamphlets & Lecture Notes » » The Card Magic of Nick Trost (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |