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Carrie Sue Veteran user Auburn, MI 332 Posts |
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On 2008-11-17 12:08, kcg5 wrote: Could you please document the most recent case of arson or a bombing of an abortion clinic for me? I haven't seen such make the news for a long time. I have coined the term "cultural terrorist" in response to the group Bash Back's assault on a church in Lansing, MI last week (http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/lansing/article-2302-gay-anarchist-action-hits-church.html). It doesn't exactly apply to those who used to shoot abortion doctors, but such activities were misguided efforts to stop the evil of abortion by destroying its main practitioners. Carrie |
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I know I am going to get ridiculed for this opinion by both believers (which I am ) and non-believers.
While I believe that God selects his followers, he never forces anything on us. Therefore I think it is wrong for christians to force anything on others. I also think that at the time the Bible was written, predicting death and ending suffering was not possible. It is now. I find it annoying (read a few articles online as I don't really have a strong opinion about euthanasia) that christians believe in ONE God yet they want to play God by by judging others. While the death penalty, abortion and euthanasia share a common denominator in respect for human life that is where it ends. There are many other factors that influence opinions on them. Death penalty - You don't deserve to live because you took another persons life. Abortion - You never had the opportunity to choose. Euthanasia - As far as I am concerned means you chose death. I have strong opinions on the first two but this is not the right place to discuss them. |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I'd stand up for my pal Carrie Sue but last time she attacked me so viciously I'm still feeling the knives in my back.
I thought the subject was what if a person wanted to be sacrificed in an Aztec sort of way and it turned in a general Euthanasia issue. My opinion, for what little it counts, is while I have issues with it but I don't feel I want to tell others they can't do it. My best friend died of cancer and he wouldn't have traded a second of the time he had with his daughters, he died on his little ones fifth birthday. The last three days of his life though he had no idea who anyone was and was in a state of absolute terror due to the confusion. Those three days I think he would have wanted to be done with. I know a couple people who were told they had a couple months to live and they went into remission and are alive today, what if they were euthinized? They would be dead. On the other hand a deeply religious man I knew had his cancer just clear suddenly to the shock of everyone though it does happen. The doctors told him he should really stay with chemo and there was a likelyhood he could really go into remission but he felt God saved him and needed no treatment, w/in a month he was dead. It is a very personal and individual thing and if I was really going out I'd just want the nurse to slip me too much pain killer one night when I was sleeping. I know in the service when guys were hurt too bad that is what they did, just a tad bit too much morphine and they were gone and the guys who had a chance got the docs attention. For those keeping score I am anti death penelty the way it is administrated, meaning taking 20 years to do it. I think telling someone "in three years on this day we are smoking you", I say if found guilty the courts check you out and if you are sure as heck guilty do like they do in some other countries, take 'em down the court steps and shoot 'em in the head and load 'em in the car with their family. |
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Carrie Sue Veteran user Auburn, MI 332 Posts |
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On 2008-11-17 21:57, MagicSanta wrote: I'll second those emotions, Sir. The death penalty, properly and quickly administered, is all about justice. Carrie |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
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On 2008-11-12 17:25, Josh the Superfluous wrote: I have no problem with the idea of sending all who believe in a god to their god and then putting that god in our book of the dead - I'm not sure the "faithful" are sincere enough to appreciate the opportunity such a policy would offer them and some may even recant for various self serving reasons - so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and vote against their euthanasia.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Carrie,
Thank you for your answer. I do happen to be pro-capital punishment as well- provided the crime is heinous, the evidence is unquestionable, and the perpetrator is unrepentant and likely to repeat the offense. I'll refrain from further comment. -Erik
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Erik - just how do you distinguish heroes from terrorists then? or those who protect our economy by enabling financial correction from those who behave irresponsibly?
I am reminded of the old story about things going from "good" to "bad" back and forth as one learns more about consequences over time and across those affected. I have since chosen to distance myself from such a calculus as involves weighing lives. Instead I suggest isolating those who would compromise, endanger or end the lives or others and making use of them as a resource for psychology students until an effective understanding, predictive diagnosis and treatment for that disorder is developed. some of us respect life - even the lives of those who don't respect the lives of others.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
No matter my beliefs, I believe everyone has a right to do whatever they want to their body as long as they do not physically hurt anyone in the process. Suicide is actually illegal, which has always been strange to me. Laws should be in place to protect people from other people and not from themselves. If someone wants to jump into a volcano for their deity then why stop them? I have a more serious issue relating to abortion because it is a crime committed by one person onto another person. We should have the right to take our own life, but not the life of another. This goes for capital punishement. I've seen too many people sit in jail for years only to then be found innocent of the crimes they were convicted for. How many innocent people will be killed because they were wrongly convicted. Let God be God. And now, lets drink and be merry for tomorrow we will die!(lol)
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
I agree with you completely right until your first question mark. But that's still pretty good.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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EsnRedshirt Special user Newark, CA 895 Posts |
Jonathan-
I mention I'm for capital punishment in certain extreme circumstances, and I'm the one called to defend my position? Terrorists take lives, or threaten them. Heroes stand up for the lives and the rights of others. And I've seen too many people caught with hand in the cookie jar who claim innocence to expect those enablers to have much of an effect. I prefer a focus on rehabilitating criminals, though that view isn't popular these days. There are cases where rehabilitation is impossible, though I would not want to be the one to decide that. You've goaded me into commenting further- because at least my views are consistent. However, I wonder about the views of those who favor exacting final, fatal, human justice upon criminals, while at the same time espousing the sacred nature of all life. -Erik
Self-proclaimed Jack-of-all-trades and google expert*.
* = Take any advice from this person with a grain of salt. |
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Dan Bernier Inner circle Canada 2298 Posts |
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On 2008-11-18 23:07, Josh Riel wrote: LOL.
"If you're going to walk in the rain, don't complain about getting wet!"
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
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On 2008-11-18 18:52, Carrie Sue wrote: The reason it takes awhile is because ...what if there are mistakes ... Remember there is no room for Error in the Death Penalty.... none . Ask all the guys on death row that have been freed because the truth came out years later . Carrie ..please explain the "turn the other cheek "and "love your enemy" and "thou shall not kill"... Do .you thing Jesus would put a man to death ? I'm not christian but I am always confused with this . I know Jesus fliped over a few tables in the temple ..but no punching or killing happened. The Eye for and Eye was old testament Jewish law. What about the new? Where can I read about these contradictions? Please have a look at this movie, it is free online ....lots of points of views from different christians about just cause for war ...very interesting.... http://www.themovieblog.com/2008/10/down......for-free |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
I consent to religious euthanasia ... thank YHWH I'm atheist.
POOF!
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
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On 2008-11-19 08:46, cardone wrote: While I agree that capital punishment should be administered with due deliberation, I'm curious about "all the guys...that have been freed because the truth came out later." There may be wrongly convicted capital criminals who are later found to be completely innocent of their crimes, but that figure is often conflated with the number of convicted capital criminals whose convictions are overturned on technical or procedural bases, rather than on exculpatory evidence. Can you clarify what you mean by "truth" in your statement? With regard to OT law, the "eye for an eye" maxim (or Lex Talionis, the "law of the claw" ) was an early example of proportionality -- the idea that the punishment should fit the crime. Rather than mandating brutality, the law prohibited extraordinary retaliation. Regarding Jesus' comment about turning the other cheek, some Christians have viewed this and other statements as support for the abolition of capital punishment (as well as pacifism). But bear in mind that context is key to meaning, and Jesus was not addressing civil administration in this and similar passages -- He was addressing personal conduct. Other passages in the NT affirm the right and duty of civil authorities to use appropriate -- and, arguably, lethal -- force where necessary and justified. Further, it is mistaken to assert a contradiction between Jesus' NT statements and OT teaching on capital punishment, when Jesus affirmed His views as being supportive of the Torah. ["Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets...I have come to fulfill them." MT 5:17] And the quote you cited "thou shalt not kill" is from Exodus 20:13, and is better understood as "you shall not murder." If the meaning is actually "do not kill," then it would be impossible for the same Law several verses later to be written, "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death." [Exodus 21:12] |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
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On 2008-11-18 18:52, Carrie Sue wrote: Actually that sounds a lot more like vengance.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
The truth is DNA tests that prove innocence ..or find the correct .. person. Out on a technicality is a different thing . For me .... one mistake is not worth it.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
On that note if DNA exist the state should absolutely pursue it. If some one cannot afford to pay for it themselves that it nonsense.
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
My family live in South Africa. There are 50 000 plus murders a year. If I am the one who has to die innocenly so these sons of !@#$%es can learn that death is punishable ny death then so be it. Please get of your high horse and philosophical rubbish and get a life in the real world. My mother could be killed in her house tomorrow because idiots like the people who claim all life is precious can not face that the fact that these dick heads need to be removed from our population.
Now please sanction and delete this post and I will save it and one day when you want to win a war...here is some good advice. Kill the bad dudes! Actually send this too the South African government, If my brother or mother gets hurt because you are incapable of punishing crimes, I will personally punish you. I am a Christian but for now just call me God. My DNA is availble for testing! |
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kcg5 Inner circle who wants four fried chickens and a coke 1868 Posts |
[quote]On 2008-11-17 13:29, Carrie Sue wrote:
Quote:
So by "coining" the term "cultural terrorist", you were given the idea from that article??? A bunch of gay people having a protest at a church? So by extension what they did is the same as people who kill the Dr.'s???? check here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion-related_violence http://msnbc.com/modules/clinics/ As to why these have stopped is recent years, I have no idea. Maybe a low sperm count in the speed taking community, or the gov. attempt to stop procreation between people with sub-par IQ's, I don't know. In the early 90's, I was in Milwaukee visiting my cousins. I was around 13 or 14. My aunt, at the time, was head of security for all local planned parenthood's. I went with her on a saturday to watch the madness. The worst thing, outside of the insults being hurled around, was the children of the Anti's. The kids were sitting on the other side of the road, often asleep on their parents shoulders, if awake with a confused look on their faces. On a summer, weekend day, might they have enjoyed life by having fun? Then there was the kind woman who, while holding a bible, yelled in my face (remember that I was 13-14...) that I would be going to hell and that my father was satan... I wonder what turned me off from religion??? And my father is a cool guy, and Im going to heaven
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!
"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill |
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Carrie Sue Veteran user Auburn, MI 332 Posts |
There's a fair amount of venom there in your post squirted at those who happen to believe the Bible. Yet you say you (and probably your "cool" father, too) are going to heaven. I'm curious on what basis you believe that.
But maybe this isn't the place for that discussion. Please PM me if you like. Carrie |
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