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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Gold, Silver, Brass, Copper, Alum Cups - How Many Different (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

disneywld
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I am enhancing my collection of Cups and am suprised at all the different materials the cups and balls are made of. Here's my questions.

What aare the advantages/disadvantages to each type? (Are copper cups better than brass cups?)

Do some maintain their lustre longer?

I just bought Gold Church Bronze cups? What the heck is that? Are they brittle? Is there a plating over bronze?

What is a delrin cup - a person or the material used?

This should be an interesting thread.
The Magic of Christopher Manos
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Bill Palmer
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It should be, but it probably won't. Smile

Delrin® is the proprietary name for an acetal resin that is very strong. The Delrin® cups that RnT II puts out are extremely tough. They are CNC machined instead of being injection moulded.

I don't know whether "Gold Church Bronze" cups are gold plated. They probably aren't because church bronze, which is a yellow bronze alloy looks very "goldish." It's another of several alloys of bronze.

Very few items are made of pure copper. Most are made of red bronze, which is a bit sturdier. Pure copper is very malleable. So if you drop a pure copper cup, it is very likely to dent. Some bronzes are less prone to this. Copper, bronze and brass are all subject to "work hardening" when they are spun, so they must be annealed at various stages of the spinning process or they will develop stress cracks later.

Neither copper, brass, bronze or even silver are necessarily "better" than one another. It depends on what YOU like. How they maintain their luster depends on how you maintain the cups. If you have high acid content in your perspiration, they will patinize more quickly. If you wipe them off after performing, they will not patinize as quickly. Also, if you wax or oil them and wipe off the excess, they will patinize more slowly. Be careful with this on silver, though. Some oils have acids in them, such as citrus oil. This may discolor the surface of the silver.
"The Swatter"

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disneywld
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I'd sure like to know more about that church gold bronze. They are from my JES squatty cups.
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gaddy
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I think those are resin coated, so you won't have to worry about them oxidizing.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
disneywld
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That's good - I lost the coating on a set of cups that I had for years - I had to remove all of it and then use a metal polish. I am the type that likes well polished cups.
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disneywld
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I used Brillo and then some fine 000 steel wool. Is there a better way to remove the lacquer when it starts to pit or flake?

Still waiting on what the Church Gold Bronze is.

Bill - Good answer on the Delrin material - I thought it may have been some lost magician that I never heard of.
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Mobius303
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Gold is the color.
Bronze is what they are made of.
Church refers to the bells that once were made. The bronze in this set of cups is the same type used in chruch bells. Durable, Thick but not too thick. These were to be the base for sets of Silver cups but the bead at the bottom lip was closed so it couldn't be used for plating.

Church Gold Bronze cups are coated in a laquer/ Magic poxy that originally used the wrong formula and had to be recalled and recoated. The cups are well weighted and stand up really well to practice and performance situations. I used mine for 14years in performance before retiring them to the shelf when I got my Sherwoods.

Great set of cups.
Mobius
Bill Palmer
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You can remove most lacquers with a good citrus based paint remover. Check your local hardware store or paint store. Epoxy is another matter.

If you paid less than, say, $800 for the cups, they are not gold plated. Church bronze is a yellow bronze that looks a lot like gold. A similar alloy is used in some banjo tone rings.

http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=57 may explain more of this.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
disneywld
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Got it. I like the part about that they, "Ring like bells"
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Bill Palmer
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You should see the fuss that banjo players make over the specific alloys that people use in the tone rings. Some of them can't even be poured any more in certain parts of the country, because they contain lead. But all of the banjo duffers have got to have that "pre-war" alloy that is in Earl Scruggs' banjo.

Funny thing is, Earl sounds like Earl, no matter what banjo he is playing.

Maybe it's not the banjo. Smile
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
disneywld
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I'm with you. I like to learn as much about my collection as possible. It is just plain interesting.
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relayer66
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Good point, Bill.
You know, I don't think Earl obsessed with what his tone ring was made of...he probably spent his time focussing on his music. You see this phenomena a lot in music and magic. People focussing on the gear and the tools rather than the art.
But still, I'd like a nice set of bronze cups...mmmm, shiny...
gaddy
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You can find more information on specific bronze alloys on websites like this one. I hope this helps. from what I gather, church bronze is a bronze alloy that has a higher concentration of zinc.
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
disneywld
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That link was very interesting - lots of information on the alloy and the hardness properties. Thanks!
The Magic of Christopher Manos
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Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2008-11-22 13:58, relayer66 wrote:
Good point, Bill.
You know, I don't think Earl obsessed with what his tone ring was made of...he probably spent his time focussing on his music. You see this phenomena a lot in music and magic. People focussing on the gear and the tools rather than the art.
But still, I'd like a nice set of bronze cups...mmmm, shiny...


You see it in everything -- music, golf, photography, magic, dancing.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Gold, Silver, Brass, Copper, Alum Cups - How Many Different (0 Likes)
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