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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12967 Posts 
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I got a kick out of this ad in the Café, the ? ad. Let's face it. Doing a double lift is easy, performing with a XXXXX wallet is easy, but cold reading! can itever be considered easy? And would it matter how much one pays? Will the cost make it easier?
Amen I say to you (too much Bible study!), can any particular Cold Reading program really shorten the life span of time from years to days? It's Easy To Order... Simply Click Below To Secure Yours At Only $400 And Your Secure E-Book Will Be Sent As Soon As You Check Out Of Our Secure Servers So You Can Start Learning The System Right Away. J |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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John:
Like any skill, you get out of it, what you put into it. And in this case, money is not a factor. My opinion, if you think of "cold reading" in the magical sense of the term, and you want to impress people with your "skill" for a few seconds, you can learn in less than a day the "classic reading." Here you will learn a one-size-fits-all generic script. People will think you are clever. If you want to make it more adaptable and personalized, get Bev's work. He can turn you from a Doctor "No" to a Doctor "Know" in the matter of days. If you want to do "cold reading" as readers and counselors, natural and psychological (understanding a person that you had not previously met or have any prior information on), there are tools out there that can give you a framework and identify indicators, and teach technique, but these tools, classes, books, and oracles (be they “new age” or “psychological”) are only a small part. Reading involves understanding people, and they only way you get that (other than a natural ability) is to expose yourself to people, try, fail, succeed, and grow. To get anywhere with this, you have to commit yourself to others, invest your emotional self, really care. Open yourself up and others will open themselves up. This cannot be faked, and does not exist in everyone. If one cannot put others first, open themselves up, and really care for people and is naturally empathetic, one cannot and will not do well in this field, Tony Iacoviello |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2501 Posts
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You will likely get quite a variety of responses to this question, largely due to the fact that magicians as a group hopelessly confuse cold reading with stock reading.
That said, learning to give cold readings is not particularly difficult compared to learning lots of other disciplines; it does, though, depend on the vehicle (oracle, whatever) one uses to deliver the readings. Getting good at cold readings results from a combination of natural abilities (some people are just not very good at having intelligent, client-focused conversation with strangers) and experience. And experience is not measured so much in time, but in number of readings. To become a world-class cold reader, one needs to give a lot of readings. And that's what stops most neophyte readers cold: they are afraid (for a variety of reasons) to get out there and give readings to strangers (it has to be strangers; otherwise it's not cold reading). Nothing could be simpler from an organizational perspective (pin on a badge that says "free palm readings" and go anyplace where lots of people gather!). But for many, nothing could be more difficult from a personal perspective. Which, in my view, is a Good Thing.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-11-29 13:43, Tony Iacoviello wrote: There are many middle-ground tools that apply methods of both the first and second approaches I mentioned that can make someone a passable entertainment reader and springboard one towards becoming a real reader with practice and study. The better works of this nature are those of Richard Webster and Ron martin (again, my opinion). Tony Iacoviello |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts
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Tony and Doug have both given wonderful answers. I would listen to both of them because each of these gentlemen really know their stuff.
Can cold reading ever be easy? Sure, with lots and lots of experience! Having the right tools to learn with/by/from is very helpful and can really cut down on the learning curve. Anything from Richard Webster, John Riggs, Ron Martin and Enrique Enriquez is worth gold to me. Kenton has some good work on the subject, as do Ian Rowland, Herb Dewey, Millard Longman, George Anderson and others. Their material will certainly make LEARNING how to give effective readings easier. Beyond this, learning a SYSTEM (Tarot, palmistry, numerology, etc) and trusting your own natural knowing/intuition is the way to go, for me anyways. We ALL get impressions, feelings and hunches about people, places and things. My job is to speak my mind and feelings I receive in a way that uplifts, empowers and inspires the people I read for. I don't consider myself a 'cold reader' and never really liked the term. -J
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-11-29 13:58, TT2 wrote: Let me add Scott Grossberg, Dean Montalbano, Mark Edwards, Rex Sikes, Carl Jung, and Milton Erickson to that list. Tony |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts
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Absolutely, Mr. Eye.
And that's just for starters!
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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True enough
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12967 Posts
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My point included sarcasm. I suppose I should have put the little smiley guy next to my post.
I was sort of poking fun at the ad. I do not believe any amount of money can turn a lifetime of study into mere days as the ad states. I believe, short of having "the gift" cold reading is rather difficult and hard work (to do it correctly and effectively!) Just to be clear, I do not think cold reading is or will ever--no matter what "system" one purchases--be easy. 
J |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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I got that John. I've been reading your posts for years.
As for the ad, I've looked at it a few times, and I keep thinking of somethign I already own (based on the work of someone I mentioned above...). Maybe someone who owns this can shed some light on it... Tony |
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts
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John, have you ever watched a young child learn to walk? It struggles, fights, falls down, gets up, and repeats. Eventually, it takes faltering steps.
Everyone goes through that experience. Yet, for most of us walking is now down without thinking about it. In fact, my guess is that you could not even concentrate--well, at least not easily--on all the things necessary to just take a few steps. When a child busily concentrates on walking, they are exhibiting conscious competence. As with learning any new skill, it takes focus and attention. Now, as an adult, you can perform the same behavior (probably a lot more capably) without even thinking about it. That's called unconscious competence. So for you, when did conscious competence walking change to unconscious competence? For some people that happens quickly. For others it takes longer. I remember learning a type of instantaneous visual card change called a "snap change" from Genii magazine. I struggled with it for a long time. After a while I "got it," but really had to focus to be able to do it. Eventually, it became "second nature." That is, I achieved unconscious competence. The same can be true for doing a cold reading. Remembering all of that "stuff" consciously is difficult and takes attention. After a while, though, you are able to do it. And then, after another while, you don't even have to think about it--it just comes out naturally. As ddyment wrote, "To become a world-class cold reader, one needs to give a lot of readings." I would contend that it requires knowledge, insight, intuition, and as he points out, LOTS of practice with different people. Eventually, you'll achieve unconscious competence. That, IMO, is what makes a world class cold reader. |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12967 Posts
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Quote:
I remember learning a type of instantaneous visual card change called a "snap change" from Genii magazine. I struggled with it for a long time. After a while I "got it," but really had to focus to be able to do it. Eventually, it became "second nature." That is, I achieved unconscious competence. dmkraig, I don't get most of what you wrote ... but to me the above is considered a knack. J |
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JohnWells Inner circle The Southern Wild 1791 Posts
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An interesting contrast:
First line of the ad copy- "Do You Want To Instantly Boost Your Income..." From the disclaimer- "Also, we do not promise, guarantee or imply that you (or that your use of our products and services) will improve your earning potential." Hmmm.... |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts
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I have done years and years of therapy...and also coaching...
Psssst! don't tell anyone but cold reading is easy its the research that takes time. If any system tells you, you can be an expert in a few days and asks you for $400 then know for sure you are being had - exploited as is often the case with nieve magicians. I'll let you into a secret but don't tell ayone...??? You can get cold reading material from any bargain bookshop for next to nothing often under $5 that is as good as any "system" asking for $ 400 maybe even better. Magicians/mentalists are so gullible I just had to post this. But my guess is that most will ignore this and buy these overpriced average systems when they can pick up better ones for almost nothing!!!! |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts
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I also think this idea that we can ruin someone' life is just a bit over the top symptoms of over self importance.
Some of you guys make me smile ya know! |
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts
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Shamefully I've never read much on cold reading. When I started doing Tarot my natural person reading skills increased dramatically. Using my instincts still freaks me out when I get hit after hit. At 44 (next month) I have life experience and that helps a lot. Cold reading without a 'system' gets easier with practise, experience and age.
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-11-29 19:37, mindpunisher wrote: Very interesting. Any suggestions on the "bargain" books that can be had for under $5 Mind? Respectively submitted, Candin
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts
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Walk into those big bargain book stores. You will alwayd find books on Tarot palm reading etc in the cheap section. They cost next to nothing and can be really good. End of line or books that didn't sell well. But often they are full of great systems written for the shuteye or general public. However I find that shuteye or general members of the public don't have the patience or discipline to actually study and learn the material.
That's why they are in the bragain book stores. No one buys them. But you can pick up some real bargains. And even the books on systems for shuteye and general public that are not in the bargain sales re still a fraction of the price of the ones written for magicians. And they are usually far better! Posted: Nov 30, 2008 10:28am I disagree with Kinesis...cold reading with a good system or systems will make you a great reader. Tarot is a system. |
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts
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Thanks Mind! I have always done a reading when I have used Danny Archer's Animental. It just came naturally but supplementing that with a bit of study can do nothing but help.
13 Steps has a nice little section on cold reading also. Candin
ClICK HERE for HOW TO MAKE TRANSITION FROM MAGICIAN TO MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER WORLD NEW BOOK!
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Mindtrap Veteran user 316 Posts
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Mindpunisher is correct or at least I agree, some of the best CR material I have, cost me next to nothing and is not by mentalists (let alone those by magicians). Not just the system but the surrounding knowledge, the various patterns within the systems, techniques, the wealth of reading advice and mindset all from those who often do reading fulltime. There always seems a large selection on offer in second-hand or thrift stores. I'd say if you repackaged some of them 'for mentalists' they would sell for ten or a hundred times their asking price and there would be much raving. Equally some of the much lauded CR material for mentalists would barely see a publisher for general public release, irrespective of its edit. More fool us for not seeing it.
Mt. |
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Posted: Nov 29, 2008 06:13 pm 
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