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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can Cold Reading Really Ever Be Easy? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JohnWells
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It seems a couple of pasts have vanished. How strange...and to think we had the best in the business available for questions.
Athos
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When people start in cold reading they always want to go for the real thing, they want to acheive what masters of cold readings does. Actually Cold reading is pretty easy if you don't try to push it too far, it's amazing how a simple fit all phrase can stun someone, you just got to get him in the right frame.

I have been using Richard Webster psychometry system which is one of the easiest to use, and I have been stunning people.

Sometimes I watch Lisa Williams Tv Shows, maybe people want to get to her point, however who knows if there are no pre-show or editing done to get that effect.

Anyway yeah I agree, even if you pay 400 you won't get any better at it.
Max.
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bevbevvybev
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We read people every day because we are human. We can heighten this ability by using 'a system'. There are very few people who make a living from 'cold reading' alone as if it were a science - however, there are many readers making a living from personality readings using a system such as palmistry, tarot etc

As I've said before, even very good mentalists allude to being great at cold reading or NLP, while using traditional methods of cheating. Cold reading, like NLP, has become a kind of buzz-phrase which is great for wrapping around an otherwise dull mentalism effect.

Most people I find looking for material on cold reading or NLP are magicians or wannabe mentalists who have actually bought into the guff that Darren Brown alludes to doing.

This means that Derren Brown is very very convincing, but means that a lot of people are looking in the wrong places. Most people would be better off learning to force a card FIRST, before learning how to then convince someone they could tell all about them because of it.

I am amazed how often this topic comes up again and again and we all go around the merry go round, again and again, until some other post pops up about cold reading.

Even I'm boring myself typing this.
Erdnase27
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Cold reading is psychology, councelskills, knowlegde of the news,current statistics and trends, intuition, warm/stock reading and more.
COld reading is learned on practise, practise in the real world and mastering it.
No cold reading is not easy Smile
Jerome Finley
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Warm/stock reading is cold reading?

Neither of those fit my definition and understanding of cold reading. We must have different takes and varying opinions, but since you are the self proclaimed 'King of the cold readers' now, you must know what you're talking about Smile

-J
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Decomposed
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Nope, there is only one "King" of CR and its CA:

http://www.madebymark.com/thetarotchanne......deb.html
bevbevvybev
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TT2 - I think my point is that people who often look for cold reading have a hazy idea to what the definition is in the first place - they're not even sure what they're looking for - simply because 'cold reading' has become a one size fits all phrase to mean a lot of things to the layman, much like NLP.

Referring to the original post on this topic, who else but someone who had completely the wrong idea about what cold reading was would go for that ad copy?

Of course us clever chaps on this board know that there is much more to it than that, hence these looping conversations LOL

Where's my thumbtip. It all used to be so easy.

PS No one seems to have mentioned ruining your own life with cold reading. Now there's a topic.
Mindtrap
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Nothing wrong or ineffectual with either NLP or CR models, but both are latched on to by newbies and Derren-clones and other technique rather than people-focused magicians. Perhaps another $400 will help? Hmmm.

I’m interested to read what someone who has worked this system thinks about it. I actually like the idea of this system containing its own specific mnemonics, but it’s lazy, that’s how most methods work with just a small amount of work to enable them. It’s that small amount of key work that makes them usable and honing them with a paying clientele that makes them easy enough to get by with. Something can be lost in modern attempts to make such vehicles too.
Quote:
PS No one seems to have mentioned ruining your own life with cold reading. Now there's a topic.

By buying every expensive scrap of merchandise that pops up with coldreading in it’s title?
John Riggs said it best, “Mentalists buy anything.”
Mt.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2008-11-30 11:55, Mindtrap wrote:
I'd say if you repackaged some of them 'for mentalists' they would sell for ten or a hundred times their asking price and there would be much raving. Equally some of the much lauded CR material for mentalists would barely see a publisher for general public release, irrespective of its edit. More fool us for not seeing it.
Mt.


Actually I started a project few years back specifically to do exactly that. But I became disalusioned with the "community" so put my efforts elsewhere.

However I have noticed someone is repackaging material from other sources and charging a fortune. And as expected its as popular as icecream in hell.
bevbevvybev
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Yes for most people cold reading is a non-practical pursuit

A bit like buying bicycle manuals by the shelf load to really understand bikes

and then never getting on one, or at most, getting on one and then thinking that if they just bought another manual THEN they'd be doing it right

Only to be told by people who actually ride bikes that they should at least get to know a couple of makes

and then never committing to any makes, in case they'd be called a cyclist

Baffling really.
Mindtrap
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Quote:
On 2008-11-30 19:45, bevbevvybev wrote:
Yes for most people cold reading is a non-practical pursuit

A bit like buying bicycle manuals by the shelf load to really understand bikes

and then never getting on one, or at most, getting on one and then thinking that if they just bought another manual THEN they'd be doing it right

Only to be told by people who actually ride bikes that they should at least get to know a couple of makes

and then never committing to any makes, in case they'd be called a cyclist

Baffling really.


Yup, quickfix mentality. The slowfix is the quickfix, but that doesn't sell so well.
Most of the others are no cyclists either, theyre just...peddlers.
Mt.
james1a
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Thank goodness this discussion is in the closed forum.
james1a
Floyd Collins
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I am far from an expert in this subject, I do however know a little bit about it. If the performer is not confident in their ability to read a person they will fail every time. Once you build your confidence cold reading becomes a tool that you can employee anytime on most anyone. To do it well still requires a lot more effort than most are willing to put into it.

My mentor once explained it to me like this.
“It’s like turning a corner every second, If you can peek around the corner and get just enough information to close your eyes and still stay on your path you will in time become very good at reading cold.”

Makes more since now than it did back then.
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mota
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It is far easier and more effective to learn a system (palm, tarot) and use that. "Cold Reading" is more work and less effective. Get out of your mind you need to do psychological or word tricks or somehow must get inside information and just do your system.
ddyment
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See, just as I predicted, a good many of the posters in this topic do not understand the meaning of "cold reading"! Magicians tend to equate the term with some sort of technique, or type of trickery. They often confuse it with stock reading, or Barnum statements.

A "cold reading" is simply a reading that uses no previously-obtained information about the client. This contrasts with a "hot reading", which exploits prior (often secretly obtained) information; there is also "warm reading", which makes use of verbal feedback obtained from the client during the reading.

Any reading delivered to a client about whom you have no preliminary information, whether that reading is performed using a standard divinatory system, a stock reading, trickery of some sort, guessing, or genuine "psychic" ability, is still a cold reading.

The term "cold reading" is mostly used by (para)psychologists and (often incorrectly) by magicians. The vast majority of readers in the real world have never heard the expression.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
mota
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I am sorry but the definition of cold reading is far from that precise. Though many agree with that definition many, many others do consider cold reading to be precisely that of word games and psychological tricks. See the book, "The Full Facts of Cold Reading", for examples of this approach, among many other works.

Also go to the page for the aforementioned book and see what the recommendations say. Among others, Penn and Teller see cold reading as precisely these tricks.

Google the phrase "magicians cold reading" and see what you get.

I do agree the majority of readers in the real world do not know the phrase.
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2008-12-02 12:18, mota wrote:
I am sorry but the definition of cold reading is far from that precise. Though many agree with that definition many, many others do consider cold reading to be precisely that of word games and psychological tricks. See the book, "The Full Facts of Cold Reading", for examples of this approach, among many other works.

Also go to the page for the aforementioned book and see what the recommendations say. Among others, Penn and Teller see cold reading as precisely these tricks.

Google the phrase "magicians cold reading" and see what you get.

I do agree the majority of readers in the real world do not know the phrase.


Mota any search on the subject which includes magicians will be complicated. that's how magicians think. As Doug says cold reading is just reading someone without prior information. If you want to make that process complicated then you are in magician mode. Otherwise ingnore all the rubbish written by magicians and study some systems.

It really is that simple. Forget about Penn and Teller. typical know it all magicians who really don't know it all.
Mindtrap
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I'll go out and imagine Doug has already read FFCR Mota. Just a hunch mind. It's an incredibly useful book built from modelling the activities of skilled psychic readers and mediums. Whether they are or were fraudulent or not (and what a linguistic mess unravelling that would be), or however they themselves account for their success in reading, is not of question (or at least not here and not again). The only question is will understanding and using them make for a better reading? Do my clients come back for more? Alternatively, am I booked again for the gig? Do they come back when my fee goes up? Ultimately, does it serve them? Same for the less frequently used HR tool.
There is linguistic word-plays and psychological ploys throughout the works of the best in business including all those previously mentioned on page1 of this thread and of course from those considered psychic. The only trickery is the trickery-mindset you bring to the table with it. The same with guilt. It's a choice, it's all for the use. I cannot imagine any skilled reader not using them, precisely the same with as a skilled therapist.

Mt.
ddyment
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Mota wrote:
Quote:
... many others do consider cold reading to be precisely that of word games and psychological tricks... Google the phrase "magicians cold reading" and see what you get.

My point precisely. To repeat myself: "Magicians tend to equate the term with some sort of technique, or type of trickery. They often confuse it with stock reading, or Barnum statements." This is exactly what Mota is offering evidence of.

And yes, I have read Ian's book, in two separate editions; in fact, my fairly detailed review of same was one of the first to appear on his Web site. It's an excellent book, describing both a specific set of methods for doing cold readings, and careful explanations of why cold readings (even those delivered using other methods) can appear to be so accurate. I recommend it.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Erdnase27
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Quote:
On 2008-11-30 16:01, TT2 wrote:
Warm/stock reading is cold reading?

Neither of those fit my definition and understanding of cold reading. We must have different takes and varying opinions, but since you are the self proclaimed 'King of the cold readers' now, you must know what you're talking about Smile

-J


I do Smile hehe. no warm reading is NOT cold reading but I use it as a part of it. Sorry if I was unclear about it. I got the name from the Herb Dewey book btw. Smile
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