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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Gaffed & Funky » » Svengali Deck and Changing to All the Same Card (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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wackyvorlon
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Sarnia, ON, Canada
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One of the final phases that is mentioned when using a Svengali deck is changing the entire deck to the same card. I've been a little reluctant to do this. It seems to me that it kind of "flags" the deck. If you don't, they have no clue that it's not a normal deck. If you change the deck to all the same card, there's only one or two logical conclusions for the method, and they lead to bad things like deck grabbing.

Any thoughts?
Chessmann
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You will find experienced magicians who support both of these positions. If you are uncomfortable doing it, better not too. Don't think you are going to find a consensus. Do as you like and have fun with it - if you don't have fun changing the entire deck, why do it? Smile
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Spellbinder
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If you're going to do it, make it seem like magic for them. Immediately after showing the Svengali deck back to "normal", switch decks for a regular deck that has the same force card on the bottom. Use the Hindu Shuffle to once again show the bottom card multiple times, and then do an effect where they take the deck into their own hands to shuffle it, etc. The look on their faces when they eagerly examine the deck... priceless!
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

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Cardician99
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Humm. I will probably take a lot of heat over this, but in my opinion Svengali is dead. Killed by abuse, misuse, hawkers, TV Magic, drug store sales, etc, over the past 40 years and more, and is probably getting the same abuse at this moment as I type.

For what it is worth, poor Svengali in my opinion is holding onto a thread as a forcing deck. Used as described, it is more than likely someone is going to say to you: "I know that trick; bought it from Target!"

Won't comment about switching it out. No offense, Spellbinder, but when that deck is being BURNED by eyes after conclusion? Deck switch? Hummm.
Spellbinder
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I realize this is the "Gaffed & Funkey" section where the decks do all the work for you, but now that the decks are turning up in the Dollar Stores is all the more reason to learn some good sleight of hand deck switches. This is just as true for all gaffed decks, not just the Svengali. I can guarantee you that those who purchase the trick deck at Target or the like will not have been taught (or have even attempted) sleight of hand. It hits them out of the blue because it is beyond their experience. The talk about "burning eyes" is just an expression of fear by the inexperienced or unpracticed; the job of the audience is to try to figure out how you did it and your job is not to let them. That's why you're a magician and they are not.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
Leo-Kim
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I found Stewart Judah's Svengaliroutine in Nick Trost's Subtle card magic part one. I liked it.

Mikael Johansson
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well
cheesewrestler
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Quote:
On 2008-12-02 16:08, wackyvorlon wrote:
One of the final phases that is mentioned when using a Svengali deck is changing the entire deck to the same card. I've been a little reluctant to do this. It seems to me that it kind of "flags" the deck. If you don't, they have no clue that it's not a normal deck. If you change the deck to all the same card, there's only one or two logical conclusions for the method, and they lead to bad things like deck grabbing.

Any thoughts?


It totally flags the gaff. Leave that to the pitch artists, because their use of the SD, and the magicians' use of the SD, are two completely separate and different things.
AaronishMagic
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There's way more laymen out there actually own Svengali. But it's the matter of who's performing it.
John C
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I perform the pitch with it so I show all the cards. Great deck.

J
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Paul
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Check in the archives, this has been discussed many times. Including input from master Svengali pitch man Mark Lewis (who wrote a book on it). In this current incarnation of the discussion, let me say I agree with Cheesewrestler.

Paul.
Lord Freddie
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I bought a new Svengali deck a few years ago and it came with a great routine by Daryl where you turn half the deck into their card.
Rocky
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I perform at my restaurant (for 19 years now) and REGULARLY include a Svengali routine that's short,sweet,and during one phase shows all the cards being turned into the "selected" card. Do some spectators relate to the deck as gaffed due to their previous encounter with it through a cheap magic set or a dollar store purchase? Of course. But surprisingly few people over the past 19 years have NOT been awestruck at the phase where all the cards appear the same. Its the part of the routine that smacks them in the face.Thousands of kids have gotten a set of the linking rings in a cheap magic set and magicians have been doing it for thousands of years...should I put these away and assume that the trick is overdone?? Im thinking its much more logical for a spec to figure out how the rings link and unlink than how the cards in a sven deck all turn the same,especially if the spec has no previous background in handling these props.
Im actually relieved to hear from other magicians at conventions or here on the Café when they feel a trick is dead from overuse. This means that yet another magician will no longer be doing an effect that I perform. The sad part is,those magicians who perpetuate these assumptions are not only doing themselves a disservice ,but newcomers to the art who may never see the benefits of doing a routine or using a gaff because some feel they are overused or dead.
mike storz
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Hi,

I use this deck all the time. I do an ambitious card routine where I tell the spectators that I'm going to show them sleight of hand. I ask them to see if they can catch me. This is when I go into the ACR. First I do it quickly then I slow it down. It gets great reactions. In between I let the cards fall from one hand to the next to show they are all different. At the end I tell the specs that most people feel that I am using more than one ace. I explain that this theory is very close to how I perform the trick. I ask who believes in hypnotism. Many laugh at this point. I explain that before this trick I actually hypnotised all of you. Again more laughs. I then proceed to show the ace and say you think this is an ace but it's actually the 2 of D. Infact, because you are under hypnosis, I can make all of these cards change to what ever I want you to see. At that point I show all aces. Big reactions at this point. I then immediately snap my fingers, break the trance and show all cards different. I then immediately switch decks and go into another routine. Sometimes I'll do a real ACR then have a spec shuffle the deck.

Love the trick.

Mike Smile
mike storz
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To take this one step further you could put the deck away and say what if I can do the same effect with money? If I could do this it would truly be magic. Take out extreme burn. Put specs under your trance and watch the mahic happen. A great way to switch out the decks while you blow them away and reinfortce your powers!
mike storz
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You can get this at any magic shop. About 10 bucks.
Brent McLeod
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Hi there-

I pitch & sell Svengali Decks Professionally at Trade shows & large Market events , I regularly converse & have had great advice from The top masters Mark Lewis & Don Driver, some days its 8hrs of constant demos but is very rewarding with well over a thousand dollars taken daily, so its a serious business
with 3 days of tradeshows etc etc...

I find having to sell the deck at the end of the day- I do a demo routine I have fine tuned over years
that is fun & interactive & Yes I do show the cards all the same at the end & the reaction with over 50 people watching is priceless & goes a long way to selling the decks indivdually or as a package with 1-2 other effects

I also use Svengali in ,many routines on stage & in clubs walkaround or on a bar & it works so well but I do not show all the cards the same but if required will switch decks which is easy to do-use the deck but play to your audience at the time, you can use the deck in such a way as to have the spectator make 5 or 6 breaks & restack the deck after youve shown fronts & backs as normal etc.. but the cards are still in order etc-I find using it & not even thinking of it as a trick deck works wonders.....

have fun

Cheers-Brent
magicman50
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I think your giving the layman too much credit. They do'nt know what a Svengali Deck is and what Spellbinder said to them it's just part of the magic
Rocky
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I agree magicman...the more magicians actually perform in the real world,the more that they will realize how "underexposed" the average person is to the effects we perform. This was made apparent when a guest lecturer proved this point to some local ignorant magic club members...he performed professors nightmare,ball and vase, the cheap plastic cup and ball set routine (no loads,just fuzzballs that penetrate the middle cup) and a Svengali deck for over 2 hours to guests at my restaurant. The patrons had a BLAST!! (thanks to the performers style) and were stumped by the tricks.Yes..he did a phase of the sven deck where they all changed to the "chosen" card...best reaction of the routine by laymen who apparently have all been exposed to this gaffed deck!
Brent McLeod
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Quote:
On 2008-12-23 17:46, Rocky wrote:
I agree magicman...the more magicians actually perform in the real world,the more that they will realize how "underexposed" the average person is to the effects we perform. This was made apparent when a guest lecturer proved this point to some local ignorant magic club members...he performed professors nightmare,ball and vase, the cheap plastic cup and ball set routine (no loads,just fuzzballs that penetrate the middle cup) and a Svengali deck for over 2 hours to guests at my restaurant. The patrons had a BLAST!! (thanks to the performers style) and were stumped by the tricks.Yes..he did a phase of the sven deck where they all changed to the "chosen" card...best reaction of the routine by laymen who apparently have all been exposed to this gaffed deck!


Good points by Rocky

I too have bought along a real streetwise Svengali man & he was a guest at a IBM meeting &
baffled & made the members roar with laughter & were so entertained by his street pitch routine & other simple magic
you forgot it was a gaffed deck-the lay audience members present were totally bewildered but
laughing so much -its the entertainment factor as well as experience with simple effects that work!!

cheers
mike storz
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I have to agree with Magicman, Rocky and Brent! Don't underestimate this deck.
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