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J.Robert
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Gettysburg, PA
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This may seem like a stupid question, but after reading the email from Ellusionist earlier about the release of "Tagged" (Ferguson) I am a bit confused. The first 50 people to place an order get a free copy of Dan Garcia's "Warning". Why is it ok to give away free copies of a dvd they pulled off the market because it is supposedly too dangerous???
mantel
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I had this question myself. My guess is they like controversy. As the Frozen name/demo debacle didn't go on quite long enough. I think the Ellusionist staff got bored of using the Warning DVDs as coasters and/or frisbees. Regardless of what I think it's "shady" marketing, plain and simple.

Regards.

Mantel
Tim Jahn
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South Florida
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Brads probably been trying to find a way to unload these forever without "Selling" them. LOL

Ever since he got stuck with the inventory after the debacle.
Andrew, (ASW)
The effects on the DVD and lecture notes are far beyond your abilities. (They require mastery of the mechanic's grip.) It would only break your heart.
Sincerely,
Darwin Ortiz.......(This post has got to be in my top 5.)
WolfGod
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Quote:
On 2008-12-03 16:41, mantel wrote:
My guess is they like controversy.


Hey, if you want to get people talking about you...

I thought the decision to discontinue Warning was kind of stupid. So some moron didn't heed Danny's advice and injured himself. Do we have to coddle every half-witted gibbon with a credit card?

I'm not going to be looking to get a free copy of this myself as I'd probably never use it, so the whole thing really serves little purpose for me other than entertainment value as the "controversy" unfolds.
JamieD
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I also think that the give away of a banned DVD is odd but if ellusionist feel like this is a good giveaway, who are we to complain. It's a free effect which so many people complain we don't get often. Regardless if it is banned or not, it is your choice to use the effect if you recieve the copy. so I say, regardless of the fact it may be a "bad move", at least there doing Something!

JamieD
THE DARK SERIES - DECEASED - SCREAM - HE'S NOT HERE - www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK
The Mac
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No, it was taken off the market for a reason. Not paying for it does not make the reason invalid.
WolfGod
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Quote:
On 2008-12-04 07:10, JamieD wrote:
Regardless if it is banned or not, it is your choice to use the effect if you recieve the copy.


Technically it wasn't banned, it was discontinued. And to this day it baffles me. Leading up to the launch of the DVD, there were numerous disclaimers and a lot of questions about the health issues of the effect were answered... and yet some mouthbreather still managed to injure himself and decided it was the fault of the dealer for selling it to him.

If Ellusionist wants to give these things away for free, let them. With any luck, a few more idiots will end up cooking their lungs and removing themselves from the gene pool and that way we all win.
J.Robert
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Personally, I wish I had one of these dvd's. I'm a professional firefighter and I've been collecting anything I can get my hands on that has to do with fire magic. If for nothing else, just for the dvd cover, it is a great picture of a Maltese Cross. -J.R.
Banester
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I posted twice to the itricks website where the message has to be approved before it actually gets posted and for some Magical reason they never appeared! Great job itricks ROFL, getting as bad a E!

JR, I would recommend contacting Garcia. I purchased a signed copy from him a while back, he is a great guy to deal with.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives
become filled with joy
-Doug Henning-
WolfGod
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Quote:
On 2008-12-08 11:13, Banester wrote:
I posted twice to the itricks website where the message has to be approved before it actually gets posted and for some Magical reason they never appeared! Great job itricks ROFL, getting as bad a E!


I'm sorry, what does that have to do with anything? I don't get it.
Banester
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I was posting a message enquiring about E's stance on Warning since they were the ones to pull it off the market do to safety questions. Now they are offering it as a freebie.

I was stating that I posted a question on itricks about the very question that started this thread (is it safe) and itricks would not post it. Sorry I did not include that information about posting the safety question.

If someone did get hurt over this I am sure the lawyers would have a field day with it.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives
become filled with joy
-Doug Henning-
WolfGod
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I still find rants about free speech on the internet to be rather pointless, but that's me.

As for getting hurt with the product, there are enough disclaimers on it I'm sure that they're legally protected. No matter what criticism you may level against the big online dealers, one thing's for sure: they aren't stupid.
JPK
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Well I'm happy that I was quick enough to have been one of the first 50 ordering Tagged.
I was going to get Tagged anyway and wanted to pick up Warning when I first heard about it. So it was a win-win for me.
Tagged was a great purchase packed with ideas. Warning is also very good and at this price, it was amazing.
John Kardel
John Kardel
Banester
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WolfGod,
A legal disclaimer is not going to protect you if people are getting hurt by using the product how it was intended. This all started when Ellusionist pulled the product because of safety concerns, but they felt the product was still safe. I guess they did not feel it was safe enough to keep on the market though. That's what people are asking now, is it safe or isn't it?

"they aren't stupid"

~ A quote from Jason/Ellusionist on the naming of a recent product:

Quote:
To the community; in hindsight we could have done better research and that is regrettable.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives
become filled with joy
-Doug Henning-
tian_ci
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You know, fire eating isn't safe either but people still do it...
Let's not be a bunch of momma's boys in here.
WolfGod
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Quote:
On 2008-12-11 11:33, Banester wrote:
That's what people are asking now, is it safe or isn't it?


They sell flash paper there too. And I've gotten several 1st degree burns practicing with the stuff. But I'm not a hyper-litigious chump that thinks his own ineptitude entitles him to free money. Instead I take responsibility for my own actions.

The effect involves both smoke and fire and has all the risks that go with both. If you're going to rake Ellusionist over the coals for this, then I can't wait to see what happens when you figure out that other things that burn stuff are also dangerous. You know, like matches, ovens, and the sun.

Quote:
"they aren't stupid"

~ A quote from Jason/Ellusionist on the naming of a recent product:

Quote:
To the community; in hindsight we could have done better research and that is regrettable.



That's not stupdity. That was a careless mistake.

If a careless mistake was the hallmark of stupidity, the collective IQ of the Magic Café would be about 3.
amazenyou
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For those that are truly interested in the method behind Warning, Danny's notes called ""Next" include this method in his traveling match routine.

I think that Ellusionist pulled it just to politically correct when they started getting e-mails from parents because their 12 year old (One of E's big demographics, I am sure) heard online that it was cool to play with matches. In todays world where all faults lay on the child, the internet, "peer pressure" and NOT on the parent, you can see where this would be a problem. I could type all day just on that... but, alas, this is a magic board.


As to the naming of the effects, this is not the first time E has done this. First there was the name debacle with BentTouchSlink (when E knew of the name issue far in advance) and now Frozen and Tagged at the same time. As all have said, this controversy gets their name out there amazingly well... Just doesn't help people gain respect for them.


Regardless, E has us talking about them which is marketing genius, albeit ethically disgraceful.

C
Youth Writer - Linking Ring Magazine
If you know of a youth that should be featured in my article, let me know!
www.cliffbumgardner.com
Banester
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Wolfgod you keep bringing this down to a personal level.

Quote:
then I can't wait to see what happens when you figure out that other things that burn stuff are also dangerous


I really find it amuzing!

It's nice to know Wolfgod has the intellect to use flash paper correctly, but what about that 12 year old who is buying this stuff. By the way there is no disclaimer on flash paper so it must be safe right?

Quote:
Instead I take responsibility for my own actions


What the heck does that have to do with wanting to know if a product is safe to use or not (Warning)? The poster merely wanted to know that very question (Safe or not safe). Do you want to put your stamp of approval on it or would you like to reserve that decision to the E! legal team? Good effect or not, if someone is going to get hurt from using it as intended then it probably should not be on the market! I don't suppose they suggest putting flash paper in your mouth and lighting it because it would be a cool effect, that would be a kicker ending to Warning now wouldn't it!

White phosphorus (which is used in a form in WARNING)can cause injuries and death in three ways: by burning deep into tissue, by being inhaled as a smoke, and by being ingested. Extensive exposure in any way is fatal.
The art of a magician is to create wonder.
If we live with a sense of wonder, our lives
become filled with joy
-Doug Henning-
KingJeux
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I don't browse here much, but I don't think I've read into any thread very far without finding at least two people bickering and bantering. And WolfChild seems to be causing a lot of them?! I don't understand what people have got to prove?
WolfGod
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Quote:
On 2008-12-15 12:28, Banester wrote:
Wolfgod you keep bringing this down to a personal level.


I was under the impression that was how it's done around here.

Quote:
It's nice to know Wolfgod has the intellect to use flash paper correctly, but what about that 12 year old who is buying this stuff. By the way there is no disclaimer on flash paper so it must be safe right?


I'm actually all for it not having a disclaimer. The more stupid people we can allow to kill themselves off, the better.

And if a parent is letting their 12 year old buy flash paper, they're not very good at this parenting thing.

Quote:
What the heck does that have to do with wanting to know if a product is safe to use or not (Warning)?


I wasn't talking about whether or not it was safe. Just that we can't fault the company if we knowingly buy something with a risk factor and end up injuring ourselves or someone else.

Quote:
Good effect or not, if someone is going to get hurt from using it as intended then it probably should not be on the market!


That disqualifies a lot of non-magical products from being on the market as well.

I don't even own the effect, and I have no intention of getting it either. I just dislike the idea that the consumer should not be held responsible for anything.
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