So I've heard on and off that there is supposed to be a new and updated version of the U3F and if you have the original Bob Kohler tape that is supposed to give you a discount?? Just wandered if anyone had heard any more information regarding this product?

I visited Bob earlier this year on a business trip to Vegas. I saw the proto-type, it is pretty clever. Not sure on its expected release though.

I just got a set of Bob's U3F in mint condition off Ebay and this is an absolute incredible set of coins. Only had them for a couple of weeks but fried a guy today just doing Bob's routine. Can't wait to get a couple more months of practice in on these...
Thank You Bob and Todd and Jonathan and everybody else that was a part of putitng this incredible coin set together.

Todd? As in Todd Lassen? I thought Jamie Schoolcraft made all the U3F gimmicks.

I believe the first U3F gimmicks were made by Todd Lassen, and then Thomas Wayne made them.

Many things fly around in the Magic world with rumours etc, and though that was something I heard, even from a very reliable source, I have since been told by someone else that I am wrong in my statement

They were made by Todd originally...And the quality was perfect. Since then Bob and Todd have parted ways, they no longer do business together.

Shawn

Just picked up a magnetic stack of Morgans and an expanded [ set of Walkers from Todd. You're right, ShawnB, the quality was perfect. Can't wait to get Todd's UWC. Neighbors sent me his book on UWC in the mail yesterday and the routines look awesome! It seems to me that now all the 3-flys are just so passe. Keep 'em coming Lassen and Neighbors!

Don't call Thomas Wayne's work "a step down." It is not.

From what I understand, the whole issue surrounding U3F originally was that it was supposed to be a limited set but somewhere down the line there were more sets being made than they were supposed to and being sourced to Thomas Wayne when Lassen was supposed to be the exclusive producer for the set. More of a ethics and moral problem than a quality problem as Thomas Wayne does some remarkable work (the casino coins I believe were made by Thomas Wayne, craftmanship on those were superb, the shell was practically invisible from all sides).

As I understand it, the supposed "limit" on the number of U3F sets to be produced was never determined or promised by Kohler himself. I believe Kohler did refer to the U3F as a "limited release", but never publicly gave a fixed number of sets to be sold. In a Magic Magazine review of the effect, Michael Close mistakenly put a number to that limit, but this number was NEVER verified in any way by Kohler.

Todd Lassen was the first mass producer of U3F, but was never promised any exclusive "rights" to manufacture the effect. In fact, the original sets were built by Michael Forbes, and at least one of those sets (Forbes') is still in use to this day, and is a very fine example of excellent craftsmanship.

Kohler invented the effect and, along with Michael Forbes and Robert Cabral, invented the physical method as well. My understanding is that Kohler outsourced to Lassen to build U3F sets as a sub-contractor - Kohler provided ALL the Morgan dollars to Lassen - and Lassen neither earned nor was awarded any manufacturing rights for the gaff set. The explanation I was given for Lassen being dropped as a supplier was that Lassen had been making and selling additional unauthorized sets on the side, a fact supported by the number of magicians that turned up with new sets Kohler hadn't sold them. Further issues arose when Lassen was unable to provide the quantities Kohler needed in a timely fashion.

For these reasons there were never any "moral" or "ethical" issues regarding my manufacture of U3F sets for the rightful owner of that effect, Bob Kohler.

And, finally, there was a point many years ago that I did feel Lassen was the best coin machinist out there - and he may well have been. But now, with the innovative use of CNC machinery and his unerring dedication to high quality and customer service I consider Jamie Schoolcraft to have far surpassed anything Lassen can do. However, what is probably most important is a comparison between their reputations within the community. Many industry members have complaints about Lassen stealing their ideas and designs - something you NEVER hear anyone (except Lassen) say about Schoolcraft.

That alone really ought to be enough, but if it's not just head on over to Lassen's blog to find out for yourself who he really is.

TW

My comment about ethics and morals could have gone both ways so please don't feel that my comment was one sided Thomas

One thing I do have to say about Schoolcraft's work is that it's sometimes hit or miss as some sets I've handled including the 3CM gaff (my 3CM was older than the one I handled), but mostly they are excellent. HOWEVER, Schoolcraft has EXCELLENT customer service and great turn around time so I find that little hit or miss aspect to be a minor inconvenience as he would correct whatever is wrong with any of his products, often times even go as far as making a new gimmick or part of a gimmick set for you.

I am really impressed by the fact that Lassen does match his coins to his gaffs so let's say if you want a soft set, they will be naturally soften sets while Schoolcraft SOMETIMES (not saying always, just a few cases I've seen where I handled some Schoolcraft shells/coins) artificially soften coins which aesthetically isn't as nice as naturally soft coins. They both put out good work though nonetheless so I truly believe you can't go wrong with any of these fine producers of fine coins and gaffs.

Also want to add, I like Bob Kohler, he is a 110% stand up guy as well as the aforementioned fine craftsmen.

Mr. Bob Kohler,

I heard rumors about there being a discount if you turn in the original VHS. Will I get it back for nostalgia? I don't like the idea of giving back the intructions for U3F. Just my opinion.

Also, what's the progress with your patent? Would love to see this hit the streets soon. In regards to that..will this be a limited run and/or leased out? How expensive do you anticipate U3F2 will be so I can start saving for it?

Lastly, will U3F2 be out in 2009?

Best,

Doug Lippert

So that's the holdup, waiting for a patent?

It must be one awesome gaffus if it needs its own patent!

Looking forward to this one...

Bob Kohler doesn't want it ripped off by Magic Fakers, etc.

How much is the chepaest I can find it? $300?

I got mine for $325. The coins are beautiful!

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I got mine for $325. The coins are beautiful!
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What do you mean? You have U3F2? Is it out now?

He's talking about U3F.

I see...

Any news?

D.L.