|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] | ||||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
He admits he is talking about FAKE FORTUNE TELLERS ... So that is what it is .. has nothing to do with REAL Fortune tellers.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
Chaz93 Inner circle Texas 1754 Posts |
All fortune tellers are Fake fortune tellers. As mentalists we should know that. Just my 2 cents
|
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
The interesting thing for me in that welles clip, is that he doesn't talk about what he did to comfort and then help the woman that he blithely told her husband had died...this clip should be shown to smug and cocky people who think readings are about them, and not the person... they want the "hit" to be amazing, and to them, nothing else matters...
ego bloated interview... and I love orson welles, just not in that interview... I like his wine adverts though, especially the outtakes...and F is for FAKE...a great documentary/film...
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
On 2012-09-28 03:41, Chaz93 wrote:
All fortune tellers are Fake fortune tellers. That's not always true ... But you already know that
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
VernonOnCoins Inner circle NYC 1978 Posts |
There's another Welles interview -filmed in the early Sixties- where he mentions CR etc. When I find it Ill post it here. It's very good
|
|||||||||
Chaz93 Inner circle Texas 1754 Posts |
Hey Slim, sent a PM yer way
|
|||||||||
bevbevvybev Inner circle UK 2672 Posts |
If you search 'cold reading' on Google old Orson comes up on page two so it's hardly hidden!
|
|||||||||
coasterollie New user 35 Posts |
Thanks for the new link 13, was an interesting video. Quite fasinated by cold reading.
|
|||||||||
Patrick Redford Inner circle Michigan 1751 Posts |
||||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Quote: A great way to start the day Patrick!!!! Thanks.. Will you be at the Pool at Mindvention or in the Bar?On 2012-09-29 11:51, Patrick Redford wrote:
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-09-28 03:53, IAIN wrote: Here's the first sentence of the clip - "You know I'm a magician." Then later, he discusses the rental of the space for just a Wednesday afternoon since the play had no matinee performance that day. Offering comfort and help was hardly within the scope of Welles' experiment that day, nor did he suggest that he was there for that purpose. He was seeking knowledge from friends and associates, and exploring further with the limited information he had at that point - a normal progression for every single one of us. Not necessarily right, but normal. He was a magician. I think it's smug and cocky to assume he was there for something else, and that he should have used the opportunity for something closer to your idea of comfort and help. His discovery, that day, was that his shut eye experience worked! He used his senses, intellect and intuition to exclaim a previously unknown fact about the woman. On that day, he clearly hadn't progressed in his development to offer her any kind of comfort and then help. Would you have - given the same circumstances? Following the death of a loved one, I, personally, would not want comfort and help in the form of a reading or its followup from a magician or from someone that closely associates readings with magician's forums. And if offered, THAT would be ego-bloated, to me. |
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Missing the point again eh...
I am not a fan of stock phrases and forer like responses as they can throw up all kinds of bad reactions... he shouldnt have done the experiment in the first place... it was a vanity thing...i am allowed my opinion you know, as are you...i'd appreciate you turn your tone of voice down if you choose to speak to me in future please... stock lines are a very dangerous thing in my opinion...
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
A reading is a relationship, not a hit. That is magician thinking.
One of my favorite works on readings (no longer available, I think) is a four page work by Walter Davis. It is a one coin reading titled, "The Janus Reading". A wonderful method for doing readings and hits are completely irrelevant. I recently watched some youtube videos of the Westboro Baptist Church and it reminded me of some of you guys...know it all...arrogant...completely self assured that you know THE TRUTH and that those who disagree with you are simply wrong. It doesn't even enter your reality that you might be wrong. I am not sure it is even possible...you hold your beliefs as firmly as the members of this extremist religious cult. Your minds work basically the same. Besides, when Orson Welles did that he didn't have access to the happy squirrel card... The Story behind the Happy Squirrel: The Simpson's Episode 2F15 "Lisa's Wedding" Written by Greg Daniels Directed by Jim Reardon Woman: I've been waiting for you, Lisa. Lisa: [gasps] How did you know my name? Woman: Your nametag. ["Hi, I'm Lady Lisa"] Would you like to know your future? Lisa: Heh, sorry, I don't believe in fortune telling. I should go. Woman: What's your hurry? Bart and Maggie and Marge are at the joust, and Homer is heckling the puppet show. Lisa: [gasps] Wow, you can see into the...present. Woman: Now we'll see what the future holds. [turns over a card from what looks like a Tarot deck] Lisa: [gulps] The "Death" card? Woman: No, that's good: it means transition, change. Lisa: [relieved] Oh. [the woman turns over another card] Lisa: Oh, that's cute. Woman: [gasps] "The Happy Squirrel"! Lisa: [timid] That's bad? Woman: Possibly. The cards are vague and mysterious. How can you argue with the happy squirrel card? http://www.shadowscapes.com/Tarot/cards.php?suit=0&card=22 |
|||||||||
Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-02 09:37, IAIN wrote: My point was spot on to your quote. If you can't see that, please use a different stock line than the one you usually use, that others are always "Missing the point". Your characterizations of my tone and others smugness are not uncommon and certainly off-topic. |
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Good grief...best of luck to you...
but I am glad others agree with me about your tone...
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Correct Iain and Mota seem to have it here.... Some people are simply too dogmatic to see anything else.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
I'm surprised at your sudden turn of position, Dave.
|
|||||||||
Zombie Magic Inner circle I went out for a beer and now have 8733 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-10-02 08:15, Keith Raygor wrote: Spot on Keith! |
|||||||||
Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
I was excited when Tony Hassini compared my style to that of Orson Wells,( And Tony KNEW Orson Wells ) and I'll never forget that night here in Orlando... However, I do think that absolute dogmatism may not be a good thing in this situation. Paranormal events occure and "Faking" them is a lot of fun and entertaining .... But it certainly doesn't mean they don't happen.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
|
|||||||||
mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
All that cutting and pasting for an attaboy...good thing no trees died for that.
I will try to give a post with some thoughts. I suspect it is a waste of time. Instead of looking at what I present I expect it will be picked apart and just used to further the mind-set of the "skeptics". First, on the death of a loved one...it shows the problems of thinking a reading is about hits. You guys seem to treat it like a card trick...yo mama died and yo card b d tree o club. However there are some interesting and valid points made. In an older post downstairs someone asked how to answer if a sitter's spouse was having an affair. One reply was say yes as there was an 80% chance to be right. My reply was maybe skeptics are right...magicians shouldn't do readings. As long as you keep thinking of a reading like a magic trick you are going to produce bad readers. The problem isn't readings, it is magicians who think they know "the trick". However, just seeing someone on this forum and making grand pronouncements is...incomplete. You don't know anything about the poster other than they post here. You don't know where else they go (tarotforum.net for example) or their other activities. I have met, and learned from, many compassionate readers here. Tony I and Dean Montalbano come to mind. As a matter of fact, Dean publishes many traditional magic works. There are many examples, but I hope you see the point. Being associated with magic does not make you a bad reader...thinking it is about hits does. Magicians seem to have an ego that tries to make everything about themselves. The reading is about the sitter, not you. On this forum you see a different outlook here than traditional reader's forums and are exposed to things that you would not see otherwise. Rudy Hunter's "Draw Me a Tree" (a wonderful psychological reading) and the works of mevproshop come to mind. The works of Jerome Finley and others I would never have seen had I not come here. I have already mentioned Walter Davis and it is through this forum I met (and eventually wrote for) Neal Scryer. On the matter of short, entertainment readings this forum is far better than most. These readings are about entertainment and members of this forum seem to understand that better than traditional readers. Sheila Lyon's group palm reading approach is a big step forward in entertainment readings. There are many other examples I could cite, but I can say that as far as readings for entertainment go magician's forums are very good. Even then, for an entertainment reading, it isn't about a trick or hits. You have a few minutes at a party to make someone feel special...it is still about them. I have also found some good instruction on learning readings here. Julian Moore's "Speed Learning Palmistry" is a wonderful work than doesn't break any new ground from a palmistry standpoint, but does a wonderful job of teaching how to do a palm reading. One standard for judging a book on reading is after you have read it can you do a reading? Julian does that very well. Let's not forget Richard Webster, who I never would have run across had I not been involved in magic a long time ago. The late Tony Andruzzi introduced me to his works. Richard comes from a magic background and also does wonderful readings. The Orson Welles clip is wonderful, entertaining, and does a good job of showing how thinking of a reading like a magic trick is what makes the reading potentially damaging. He made many of you percolate..."Look, he is telling me what I already believe, what a smart guy!" We can discuss frauds and morality but I can tell you I have been ripped off frequently by magic, and especially mentalism, products. I have lived both in the reader's world and the magician's world. I find magicians overall to be a bit of an untrustworthy bunch. People whose mindset is deception tend to have more flexible morality. That mindset is prevalent in magic, not readers. When I see some of you spouting off about morality, honesty, and ripping people off I wonder about the poster and what they seem to be compensating for. I would feel much safer if I lost my wallet at a psychic fair than if I lost it at a magic convention. So, to tie this together, for counseling readings I agree that magicians should not do these readings as long as they believe readings are about hits and showing the sitter how wonderfully psychic they are. The more you subscribe to "The No Facts of Cold Readings" approach the less you should be doing non-entertainment readings. For entertainment readings magic forums are much better than traditional reader's forums. Just some thoughts. |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Orson Welles explains Cold Reading (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |