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JordanB Special user dallas, tx 626 Posts 
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LOL Dan.
 The main thing he would ask is "Why are people arguing about the diagonal palm shift on the internet?" Perhaps with a few other salty words.
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts
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Because they have nothing better to do.
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Well, once Vinny passes judgment, there's really no place to go.
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts
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Just having some fun LOL
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts
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By the way, I totally agree that it works fine as written; and when performed well (and in the correct context) perhaps better than the double pump. My point (very briefly) was that they're both deceptive techniques, and that most people do not/will not put in the practice to perfect the Erdnase method. There's an interesting point! "...Most people do not/will not put in the practice..." Why is that? Answering that question helped me to work on the DPS with more optimism. One of the things that held me back initially was a fear that if I allowed the spectator to return the card to the deck I might lose control of the selection. Rather than risk that horrific outcome, I opted for taking the card back from the spectator, displaying it, inserting it halfway in the deck, displaying it again, then setting the deck in the proper position to complete the shift. Wow! How bad was that? Pretty bad, I think, since all that handling just got me to the point where I could choose between double or single action palming. I pretty quickly realized it was bad, and discovered that I was allowing fear to rule my decision-making. Once I recognized that, the work became significantly easier... Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Indeed. And once we take on the fact that "most people do not/will not put in the practice," how do we respond to that? I guess the first way to respond is what you did, which is to not become one of those people. The second way is to work towards the better outcomes -- always -- and try to set the example.
By the way, you are doing, and have done for quite a while now, a fine job with that. |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts
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On 2008-12-31 13:06, Open Traveller wrote: Thank you. I am inspired from time to time by the level of Café discussions, and the continued efforts at respect and civility. It is easy to share info when you know the audience is receptive and responsive! Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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Oh, you're not left-handed, are you.
;) |
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Motor City Special user Metro Detroit Area 587 Posts
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If I may, I would like interject a comment regarding Paul's handling of the DPS. I have not seen anyone execute it better than Paul.
I especially like how Paul has difused the return of the selection. There seems to be no heat on the move. The cards are dribbled. Because of that, the cards need squaring. The deed is done! |
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adamc Regular user Sydney, Australia 138 Posts
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On 2008-12-31 18:25, Motor City wrote: I have a question about this move. When the selection is placed back into the pack by the spectator, the card is pushed into the pack at an angle. Do you then proceed to slide your left thumb along with the card and angle jog it even further, to the point where it's about to be rotated out by the left pinky, and then dribble the cards? Or do you just push it in at an angle, dribble the cards, and then during the square up you slide the card with your left thumb and strip it out as in the normal DPS? After writing this down, it seems the latter would be the correct method, since it provides justification to square up the deck, whereas if you square the deck before dribbling, and then again after dribbling, it's superfluous and has no justification (and the larger angle jog may be visible as you dribble the cards). Thanks, Adam |
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NeoMagic Inner circle I have... 2017 Posts
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I like Peter Duffie's handling where the selection can be replaced (by the volunteer) square onto the bottom packet. And in replacing the upper packet, the card is angle jogged ready for a DPS. You can see it in this trailer where he uses it to steal the 6 of Hearts (at the 1 minute mark). Actually, he uses the same method to angle jog and then steal the Ace of Hearts at the 43 second mark. Very clever - it is based on a Steranko move. Lots of other good stuff on the CD too.
See and download my latest free card-suits-themed desktop wallpaper | HERE
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Motor City Special user Metro Detroit Area 587 Posts
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On 2009-01-02 15:02, adamc wrote: Adam - The card is never pushed back into the deck at an angle. The deck is spread. A spectator touches a card. The spread is separated with the selection being the lower most card of the right hand spread. It is shown to the audience. As you lower your right hand to place its cards on top of the left hand portion you angle the selection. The cards are dribbled. The DPS is executed. I suggest you purchase or borrow a copy of "L.I.N.T." and learn Paul's handling. All the details of the move are described. |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts
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On 2009-01-02 21:14, Motor City wrote: I'm not sure if I understood this message, but are you under the impression that the write up in L.I.N.T. is Paul's only handling? 'Cause it isn't. Paul has work on the DPS of such a scope it could take hours and hours to see. sey |
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adamc Regular user Sydney, Australia 138 Posts
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On 2009-01-02 21:14, Motor City wrote: Thanks for the reply John, very interesting. I'll definitely have to find a copy of this book now. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I say that I'd love to see a video of Paul performing his version of the DPS (and even better if I could buy a tutorial!). So far my teaching resource has been Carney on Palming and I like the way he handles it, no finger movement at all, but I don't have very many other resources to compare to (other than books of course). Oh yeah, and there's also that new Jason England theory 11 video on the DPS which I've been meaning to pick up. Adam |
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts
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I have put in a fair amount of work on this move. About 6 years now. Read about it in Ortiz's Annotated Erdnase after seeing a wonderful magician at Hollywood Magic use it on me. I believe his name was Jeff Thomas (I could be wrong about his name.)
Almost immediately I started to do two things differently: The first was a single stroking action. The second, this really goes against scripture, was to bend the card as it comes out. Erdnase says to keep card flat. I am already bending it into full palm before the final corner has cleared the deck. This enables me to table the deck or hand it out without any back and forth motion. Took a bit of practice to ensure that final corner wouldn't click but it's not that hard. My opinion is that this gives me a slight advantage in angles (very slight) as the card takes up less room on the two dimensional plane of exit from the deck. Randy |
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BMF Regular user Saint Louis 132 Posts
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My opinion is that this gives me a slight advantage in angles (very slight) as the card takes up less room on the two dimensional plane of exit from the deck. I'm not sure what exactly you mean here. You say that you bend the card, but also that it occupies only two dimensions. I generally worry very little about the card when compared to how much I worry about where spectators will be standing or sitting. I'm certainly no expert on a single stroke DPS, but I like to think that I'm very aware of my angles. I've yet to discover a way to make a card appear only in two dimensions. |
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Mike.Shots Regular user Terrell 199 Posts
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On 2009-02-18 22:25, BMF wrote: I believe Marlo had work on this. |
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts
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Erdnase discusses how the card should come out on a flat plane - hence my two dimensions comment. When you do bring it out in such a way, flat that is, it takes up 100 percent of that space. (Whatever the dimensions of the card are.) By bending it it does not take up the same amount of space before you can get the card to clear the deck for the replacement to the bottom.
In other words - looking straight down at the deck as the move is done in the standard way the card will always take up the same amount of two dimensional space. It won't matter what fingering or hand placemnt you do its just what you have to contend with. Still looking straight down at the deck and violating the "keep the card flat rule" by bending it you wil appear to take up less space on that plane. By bending it I put what is supposed to be a two dimensional movement into a three dimensional action. from the top the card will appear to take up less space. I can use this to get slightly better sight angles. But the real bonus comes with significantly less hand motion. Hope that clears things up. Note - Pg 249 of Ortiz's Annotated Erdnase discusses the card needing to be kept flat and the edge of the deck pointed toward the spec. The previous couple pages go into great detail on the intricacies involved with setting the move up; insertion, etc. It is my opinion that the real crux of the move is when that card is just about to clear the deck. This is the same situation with a pass and side steal. How to minimize what is essentially a situation of holding two cards next to each other. My solution is to shrink the second card so it is smaller and needs to take up less room to clear the first card. Paul Cummings handles this problem with his side steal by pivoting the card 90 degrees as he steals it out. There are numerous examples of this in the literature. I merely applied that idea to the DPS. |
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magicator Loyal user 201 Posts
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Haven't read the whole thread. But Genii had a nice issue on the Diagonal Palm Shift last year. It suggested to push the card into the deck (diagonally...) not with the thumb of the left hand, but with the index finger of the right hand. This saves you one going back and forth of the deck....
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts
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On 2009-02-19 08:43, magicator wrote: That's Erdnase's original method in The Expert at the Card Table. |
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Posted: Dec 30, 2008 04:39 pm 
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